SHIMMER and Ring of Honor star, Daizee Haze spoke to Alex Marvez recently about the growing Women of Honor division in ROH.
The company has been amping up the use of its female talent, particularly Haze and first ever SHIMMER Champ Sara Del Rey, with a 10-minute match this past Monday on HDNet and a pay per view match next month.
She says:
“When I started in Ring of Honor, it was rare to see any type of women’s match on the show,” Haze recently said in a telephone interview. “I’m really excited to see it get pumped up again. Sara’s been around a long time and we’ve had tons and tons of matches. I’m also excited to see what new talent is going to be brought in to work.”
On WWE’s Divas division, Daizee said:
“WWE has done a lot better job the past couple years putting women out to do matches, but the girls aren’t necessarily wrestlers,” said Haze, who made her pro debut in 2002. “They’re trained to do certain things wrestlers do. That doesn’t really impress me. WWE could take any of the very talented women on the independent circuit today and make them look gorgeous. Instead, they’d rather take bikini models.”
You can read the full interview here.
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61 Comments
I’m really interested to see how the women’s division in ROH progresses. I mean, they’ve got an onslaught of women in SHIMMER that could potentially be used at some point, plus there are so many capable women on the Indies that could shine there, as well.
The interview was good. I do have to say that I don’t necessarily agree with everything said. I feel that TNA’s women’s division is getting better now. Using Sarita and Mickie James is a smart move. And in WWE…Nattie Neidhart is the new champion and Beth Phoenix is back…so that is hopeful. I guess, they still usually only get a maximum of five minutes in the ring (even if it is on a PPV), but at least it’s not Kelly, Rosa, Eve, etc. week after week now.
I know this has nothin to with this report, but this is huge, Pwpix,net is reporting that “While WWE released Jillian Hall as an active performer last week, she remains with the company and will be training Divas at FCW in Florida.” which is very very good news for the FCW divas, i am so happy now :)
“WWE could take any of the very talented women on the independent circuit today and make them look gorgeous. Instead, they’d rather take bikini models.”
I couldn’t agree more with Daizee on this. I have to imagine that it takes more work to bring in a model with no experience and train her to work, talk, etc than it does to bring in a woman from the indie scene who already knows all that and just give her a make-over.
Unless the wrestlers that jobbed out to them are getting hired, then there is no real truth to what Daizee said. Even if the are airing matches, theres no real point when they are not permantly staying or there is no real storyline. Kudos to them for giving the women time in the metches, though.
@madslam2009 I didn’t realize you were the booker of ROH. How on earth would you know that there is no truth to what Daizee is saying?
I dont have to be the booker of ROH. Im just saying that theyve baan saying this for a few months but no noew talent has been signed even though Kong has been working a few events (not signed however)
I have said the same thing for the past few months. WWE could easily sign women from the indies and turn them into model’s easy as that instead it’s vise versa. To bad WWE try to make their stars then already bring in bloomed stars that are underrated. WWE doesn’t understand that the fans don’t want to see their failled “projects”.
WWE could not only easily save more money but they can also spend less time training the no experienced wrestlers. Also by saving money i mean that most women wrestlers dream of joining the WWE and would care more to wrestle then to get paid but some of the models instead care for how much money they get then wrestling.
This is something Vince McMahon reportedly said about hiring women: “it is easier to turn a model into a wrestler than a wrestler into a model.” And quite frankly, Daizee Haze makes much more sense than Don Vinnie. I mean, look what Jillian and Serena had to do to be apart of the WWE. And of course, the majority of the Divas have implants.
I don’t care if it’s “easier” or even cheaper to turn a model into a wrestler, I still feel what WWE is doing isn’t right. And to be honest, I still feel worried when a model is signed because who knows what her true intentions are in joining WWE. I always felt that if someone truly wanted to wrestle, they should attend wrestling school. But at the same time, not everyone has knowledge of wrestling schools. For the most part, I think the models in WWE have good intentions (Tiffany, Naomi, Alicia, Nikki, etc.)
@SherriShepherdWWE
Umm wtf does that have to do with this discussion? That’s old news anyway, it was reported ages ago that they were gonna retire her as an active performer and make her a trainer. Idk why ppl thought she was actually released, get a clue.
I think Daizee does bring a point when she mentions women’s MMA. Imo it’s the same kind of genre. Gina Carano etc is widely respected and her fights almost always gets the same kind of crowd respect and revenue as the mens. I don’t see how wrestling, well WWE, doesn’t take on that logic….like why would the crowd want to see anything other than wrestling, especially good wrestling. The pretty girls they hire still don’t get a reaction like a Trish or Lita, because they don’t offer anything other than looks and I think that if the WWE presented a serious womens division and get rid of their playboy fighters, than I think the crowd will warm to it.
WWE needs to avoid the models and look over the indys I mean look at how many Wrestling fans bashes the Divas at every 35 seconds.However It’s not the Divas fault it’s the creative team fault they need to learn how to but more affort into the divas.
To what daizee said about the wwe divas division: Amen!
I know this will sound surprising coming from me because I am an advocate of talent over looks and I am a big fan of Daizee Haze. However, I actually agree with a portion of what Vince McMahon said (as quoted by genxyxlove91)
It is hard to train a model into a wrestler. It will take years. But it can be done. Look at Trish. Granted she was not the best wrestler during her time but she was still credible.
However, it must be understood that it is a lot harder to turn a wrestler into a model. A makeover, heck, plastic surgery, can only go so far (in some cases they even go bad.)
That being said however, I still do not agree with the hiring process of the WWE. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. And as sad as it sounds, the eyes of the WWE are very narrow.
Daizee Haze is one of my fave wrestlers but she just left a bad taste in my mouth. When will taking shots at the WWE Divas fall out of style? It’s sad when the men do it but it’s even sadder when the women do it. I don’t think every female wrestler comes out of the womb wanting to wrestle. People get into the business different ways. The wants that want it stay the ones that don’t go. Not all the models turned wrestlers are going to be good just like not all the indy trained wrestlers are going to be good. The indy scene doesn’t always mean awesomeness. Also why don’t most people that bitch about the females in the business never bitch about the male models in the business? I also don’t get why people are so hung up about the women only doing it for the money. I’m pretty sure the men do it for the money as well.
i would love to see wwe make some of the indy girls look cute delray haze kong flash canadian ninja’s and a few others in tight dresses and long weaves i would be speechless
sugarrush28: “When will taking shots at the WWE Divas fall out of style?”
I understand why this annoys people. It annoys me to. However, I can understand as to why this keeps coming from women like Daizee Haze.
We have to accept the fact that even until now, the WWE is still the number one wrestling company in the world. Therefore it is a usual thing that when a person thinks of pro-wrestling, that person immediately thinks of the WWE. So naturally, when one thinks women’s pro wrestling, one would most likely think of the WWE Divas.
The Divas are arguably the face of women’s pro-wrestling in the world. Even though there are women out there (like Mariko Yoshida, Wesna, Mschif and, yes Daizee Haze) who are arguably a lot better and perhaps more dedicated than they are.
So, if the divas are performing below the standards of independent women, I can understand why someone like Daizee Haze would be critical because these women are representing what she does and she knows that there are women out there who can represent what their side of the industry better.
On a side note, in my experience, people don’t usually bash the divas more than they bash the creative behind the divas.
^^^
O M G beautiful! You hit the nail right on the head and then some. Bravo!!!
Also Daizee isn’t necessarily bashing the divas, ‘bashing’ would be saying they’re whores who don’t belong in the ring etc what she said isn’t that much far off from the truth. Most ‘divas’ i.e models are tv wrestlers/performers, they aren’t trained to be the best in the world, they’re trained to work 2 minute matches.
Personally, I’ve never been a fan of Daizee Haze as a wrestler. I can watch her in small doses but I find her longer matches kind of bland. Always thought there is way better talent on the roster than her. What’s the point of more women’s ROH matches when they’re not going to be too long, treated as special attraction matches, and there’s SHIMMER for the very best of women’s wrestling?
What she says is true to an extent, but it’s all about a selective image. Look at who the WWE hires on male side of things – college football players and the new trend of 2nd and 3rd generation wrestlers. So even the guys who are smaller and not so ripped will less likely find a spot in the WWE.
The reality is that casual fans by and large are more interested in storylines than pure wrestling. And how many indy female wrestlers would jump at the chance to sign with WWE, if given the opportunity. Things can be frustrating, but don’t like wrestling an indy show is above working on national stage that’s beamed out to millions of viewers across the world.
Finally, I don’t think anyone can criticise WWE’s hiring policy. They’re clear about what they want. Whether they sign a model or indy female wrestler, both have to make it through developmental in the same way. Then making it onto the main roster and getting over with the fans are like the acid tests for success. Some pre-trained females have had that success like Beth Phoenix and probably AJ when she debuts on one of the two brands. But look at the women who came in with no experience – Trish being an obvious name, Kelly Kelly has gone over remarkably well with the crowd, and Naomi and Kaitlyn from NXT have good chances for this too.
i have to say this cause it just has me thinking im a big fan fo the Haze and SDR but i have to b.s. on some of the things they say
i love how they say they compete for the sake of competing and that their not in it for the money lol why do it if you didn’t plan to profit from it so i have call b.s. on that lol
im passionate about dance and choregraphy but im not going to do it for free
and another thing why diss the divas? lol i love how they say they would never work for the E b.s. lol you know in a heartbeat if Vince said hey want work for the me they would they were never asked so they sound bitter
and lastly E has made it known they don’t really take the indies seriously but TNA pride themselves on being the home of indy talent ok but i think i would be more offended if i busted my ass in the indies and then get signed to TNA but theres that chance they’ll never be used maybe once or twice so you still be up the creek without a paddle.
No Id rather have Tiffany return and have the NXT girls.
NT86: “I don’t think anyone can criticise WWE’s hiring policy.”
Actually, as the customers of their product, we can and, ideally, we should. Granted we cannot really control what they want because, as a lot of people here have pointed out, it is their company. But since, theoretically, they are doing this for our entertainment, we have every right to criticize their work based on our perception. Of course, it’s all up to the company whether or not they want to adhere to the suggestions of a certain group of fans or go their own way.
Why does have to be a childhood dream to be a wrestler? were not always going to get a Nattie or a Tamina but i have respect for K2 cause she took a oppurtunity and ran with it yeah they hired models but some of them have turned out great workers, Trinity McCoy (Naomi Night) hasn’t even been there a yr and look at and look at Victoria Crawford (Alica Fox) a former champion hell Eve Torres is decent they put there bodies on the line just like SDR does and Haze so instead im dissing them i think least see that the model girls who are willing to stay around and endure the pain are giving there all and don’t worry about what they plan on doing past that if it doesn’t include you or affect your life in anyway then shut up so what some get released or quit to do movies what does that have to do with you and why your there?
Cyndi: “they say they compete for the sake of competing and that their not in it for the money lol why do it if you didn’t plan to profit from it so i have call b.s. on that lol”
Whenever a person says that, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they are willing to do something for free. I think it is important to realize that SDR and Daizee Haze are not exactly word Nazi’s (one can easily realize this in their promos.) They are not very particular in choosing their words. So, we cannot automatically assume that they mean exactly what they say. They could simply mean that money is not their ultimate driving force.
And as ideal as that sounds, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s impossible to find someone with that philosophy. Take MsChif for example. MsChif is a scientist outside the ring and she loves her job. Several sources have even stated that she doesn’t even need to get paid big amounts in wrestling because her day job handles her expenses well enough. And yet, this woman is the kind who is willing to get put through a table, get bent like a pretzel and get thrown off the ring for humbling indie salaries. She does it perhaps because she seems genuinely in love with the craft.
and one more thing least the E still pays their girls even the ones their not using lol TNA hardly use the girls they have there and your still having work indy shows if your not working a TNA event cause their not going to pay you so i would be doubly pissed im not being used or getting paid and least the E does use most of if not all their girls rather if its just being a valet or backstage segment that least a paycheck lol i smell bitterness lol
i give you that but she does it because she thinks she could paid for it as well you can explain many different to me but istill see like that. Differences of opinion
CYNDI: “they put there bodies on the line just like SDR does and Haze.”
I’m afraid I disagree. Granted, their level of work is still dangerous but SDR and Haze wrestle iron women matches, intergender matches, hardcore simulations, etc. that usually 50 percent longer than average diva matches. The most physical match the latest crop of divas have been exposed to is the I Quit Match (done by pre-trained Divas, Melina and Beth) and the Make over match (which also used Beth.) I cannot remember a recent diva match that lasted 10 minutes. And as one of the Diva Dirt readers have mentioned before, a number of divas do show fatigue past 10 minutes or so.
Also… as for your other point…
“and lastly E has made it known they don’t really take the indies seriously”
Why would they admit that? Independent promotions have low budgets. For the biggest wrestling company to admit that they take the indies seriously, it would, to a certain extent be a bit self-defacing. Besides, a lot of WWE women have been using moves popularized in the indie circuit. Even the males do that. Batista even requested an indie wrestler if he could use his submission move.
well Crying Light like i said you have your opinion and i have mine so how about you back off thank you lol
CYNDI: “i give you that but she does it because she thinks she could paid for it as well you can explain many different to me but istill see like that. Differences of opinion”
Exactly. But I doubt that money is her main driving force since what she is subjected to could actually impair her and cause 50 times more than what she is paid.
But yes. This may simply be a difference of opinion.
I’m not trying to fight or anything but do you notice i haven’t said anything about what you said or jumped your back? lol so how about let me say whatever i want you don’t have to agree and really i dont care lol and you get say what you want
Deal? ok thanks lol
Crying Light do want to jump on me for anything else? how about these are my words and i never said anyone had to agree so how about we leave Cyndi alone lol
CYNDI: “well Crying Light like i said you have your opinion and i have mine so how about you back off thank you lol”
I’m not responding to you to be rude or anything. And I’m not saying I’m right either. I am merely voicing my opinion on an issue that I think I can contribute something to.
I don’t understand what point you people think you’re making:
People “diss” the divas because they are often terrible. If you like terrible wrestling, good for you I guess but you have no room to criticize people who want good wrestling, especially wrestlers. I don’t care how many Kelly Kelly gifs you’ve made, where do you get off tell Daizee Haze she can’t voice an honest, and correct, opinion about wrestling?
Second, what does it matter if some non-WWE girls would work for WWE? They’re still better than people in WWE, and if they got hired they’d be the top talent there like Beth or Natty (whether they’d actually have a chance to wrestle is another story). You act like the WWE’s poor practices, booking, and outlook on women means that all indie wrestlers have to refuse to work for them out of principle, and that’s incredibly dumb.
Moreover, if you actually care about these models you should be the ones most disappointed with how WWE treats them, as if they are completely and utterly disposable. If you haven’t seen that yet, you are blind, period. I wish you and your favorite model the best on your future endeavors, after she gets released in the next few months because they’ve found someone younger, or she got injured or pregnant or got tired of working for a fraction of any of the men.
CYNDI: Again, I’m not taking offense. And I don’t think you should either. In fact, I think that it only seems like I’m jumping on your comments because, of their arrangement. If you would notice, the comments below some of yours were typed to address your earliest statement. it simply means that my posting is slow. That’s all.
@Crying Light
I agree with everything you have said so far. I actually never thought about how difficult it truly is to give a woman a makeover, but I personally think it depends on each case. For example, Sara Del Rey can easily stop wearing her trademark eye make-up and use typical girly make-up and wear sparkly outfits. On the other hand, someone like ODB will be very difficult to turn into a Diva.
And yes, the Divas are indeed the face of women’s wrestling, hence why not many people take it seriously. It irks me to this day when sexist men go around complaining that the indie girls don’t wear revealing clothing or act like bimbos, they just need to accept that the women are treated equally to men in the indies and don’t need T&A to get the crowd going. And to be honest here, up a few years ago, I never watched women’s wrestling because I assumed they were all like the Divas. That is until, several people changed my opinion on it and introduced me to Shimmer and that a lot of the Divas were indeed good wrestlers., then I stumbled on DD and appreciated women’s wrestling even more.
How about im saying whatever the hell i want like you so how about you get hell of my damn back how like that? youl like it?
CYNDI: “How about im saying whatever the hell i want like you so how about you get hell of my damn back how like that? youl like it?”
Alright. I honestly don’t know what your problem is. Why are you so defensive? It’s not like I insulted you or anything. I don’t know how I can make my point any clearer.
I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU.
IT ONLY SEEMS LIKE I AM BECAUSE MY POSTING IS SLOW SO BEFORE I COULD TYPE A FOLLOW UP TO ONE OF MY COMMENTS ADDRESSING YOU, YOU ALREADY HAVE A RESPONSE. THAT BEING SAID, IT LOOKS AS THOUGH I AM RESPONDING TO EVERY SINGLE THING YOU TYPE…
but I do not.
I don’t know how you can misunderstand what I’m saying.
its whatever im over it lol im not going to start over the net cause there no point can we agree to disagree? and im sorry if im on the defensive
WWE is never going to change their stuck in there ways just TNA is stuck in theres but i find it really hard to be an indy wrestler and be excited to work for TNA and still the possiblity of not getting used
CYNDI: Sure. :)
and not get paid!!!! lol that would offend (ME) telling me i busted my ass this long and get a contract with TNA which to (ME) doesn’t have much meaning because unless your getting used your not getting paid (I) have passion for dance and anything dancing related but you tell me i worked hard and still not be used or get hired and not get paid like Money is an emotional thing to deal with and i rather be stuck with the E and least get 6 figures then work for TNA and make peanuts but that’s just ME
hell i find remarkable if they can look pass that but ewww after so long busting your ass lol maybe im just a money hungry captialist pig lol i need get paid to work lol
i applaud those who can do it for the sake of doing it i couldn’t do that but can say more thing Indy workers get booked to shows but then they can go home WWE people are on the road constantly and away from home i find that more of a sacrifice then body to me
IT has to wear on your mind somehow Indy or WWE or TNA like how do they keep from not having a full scale meltdown is remarkable i would be ready to pull a Teresa and flip tables lol
Beth, Natalya and Tamina and April are those rare cases lol lets remember Tara might be with TNA but she E grown talent who never done and indy show in her life i have more respect for someone like Mickie James who doesn’t bite the hand the feed her and who allowed exposure things happen reason and if that means she happy make a couple hundreds and a doing indy show to do her music then i say Kudos to being bitter cause you can’t the past you only learn from it
People need to realize that from WWE’s perspective, there’s no reason to change their policies.
The girls they hire get trained the way WWE wants them to, more often than not they get over with the fans, and thats what they ask for.
Look at it this way. Trish made them money. Sable made them money. How many girls with extensive Indy experience compared to those two? Whats the incentive to change their policies other than some fans complaining? Some fans love the girls they hire so that balances out.
“WWE’s Perspective” lately has done nothing but see their product’s value diminish immensely over years. More than that, it’s treatment of women even hurt Linda’s political campaign. “WWE’s Perspective” is far up their ass.
The models get over with the fans? How come I hear boos of disinterest almost immediately when one of them is given a mic?
People should stop taking shots at the Divas and take it out on the WWE. These “models are given limited traning but some do devolp a love for the sport. Like i doubt people still call Layla a model because she has established herself as a wrestler. Kelly Kellly, Alica Fox and Eve Torres are getting there and they already have multple good wrestling talents. Its WWE’s fault for putting them on TV and not letting them advance thier traning. Every oersin can have the potential to be agood wrestler so the model threat is nit that big of a deal anymore, especially witg Jillian as a Trainer
the girls in the wwe make has much as 3 thousand a week compared to tna 2 to 6 houndred on a get paid if you work basis
when you become a women champion in the wwe the world knows it tna shimmer joshi cmll not so much and i think that’s a shame but that life that’s why all ladies in pro wrestling dream of winning the womens now known as divas championship it will get you need to be on top LOL!!
Daizee <3 ORRRR the WWE could be smart and hire women that really are Smart Sexy and Powerful…cough*LIKEYOU*cough
“The models get over with the fans? How come I hear boos of disinterest almost immediately when one of them is given a mic?”
Thats funny. I don’t remember boos when Eve Torres had her promo with Miz. Sounded like cheers to me. And I distinctly remember Kelly Kelly getting chants for a recent match she had. Not to mention she’s pretty over herself.
Hell, MARIA was over as all get out. Again, take a look at their recent history. If you grouped them, the ones without the extensive indy experience prior to being hired aren’t usually the ones who ended up over. You have the Beths and Natalya’s but on the other hand you also have the Kelly Kelly’s and such who are just as over.
Like I said, from a business standpoint there’s no concrete proof that their hiring practices aren’t working.
The only thing that points to that is some fans online bitching about it.
Thats not even mentioning the promotional work girls like Kelly and Eve do. That combined with them working a WWE road schedule thats tough for anyone. I don’t think they get enough credit for that.