On this day in history:
April 30th, 2001 | Trish Stratus must have felt like she was walking to the gallows when she entered the ring to face Women’s Champion Chyna in a non-title match. After all, Trish was just learning the ropes at the time and Chyna was, well, the 9th Wonder of the World. It was a squash match through and through, with Trish unable to get in a speck of offense before being pinned by Chyna. Post-match, Chyna complained about the lack of competition for her title, and decided that instead of pinning her opponents, she would now spank them. We’re sure Moolah felt the same in her day. Lita arrived to make a challenge and Chyna accepted, but warned Lita that her new penchant for spanking might leave her with a sore backside.
What are your memories of this moment? Tell us in the comments!
62 Comments
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Im glad Trish doens’t take an @$# kicking like that anymore atleast not from other women.
at
I imagine Chyna must’ve felt this was beneath her.
No Holds Barred Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
Trish probably thought the same…. wrestling against this sandbag
Choko Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
I doubt Trish thought that. Trish was worse than Chyna back then.
This is before Trish started training as a fulltime wrestler.
javiousmckenzie Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
@NoHolds rish has always helt Chyna in high regards even stating every chance she gets Chyna should be in the hall of fame
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Loved chyna…but i hated pauls commentary beauty vs the best??…like chyna wasn’t beautiful or something…
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you just dont hear reactions like that anymore for any superstar let alone a female in the business. loved the entrance and the mic trash talk. lita seemed really uncomfortable in comparison…
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Shame to see what has become of Chyna, after watching clips like this.
I know she claims she is happy–and if she is, then great, I wish all the best for her–but IDK, she didn’t really make a normal career transition, if you ask me.
It’s also hard to believe watching this, that Trish would go on to be one of the biggest Divas that WWE has ever had.
at
oh memories <3 :'(
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I kinda miss this chyna with the exception of her woopin trish like a red headed step child.
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I don’t know why, but this match has always just been so memorable to me. I think it really shows how far Trish has come in her career, from getting her butt handed to her, to kicking butt (‘:
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It was always weird how she didn’t want to wrestle women being women’s champion.
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90 seconds squash match with a horribly executed finisher. If this was Beth vs -random diva- we would get 500 posts of people complaining how much the divas suck and how much better things were 10 years ago.
redsandman99 Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
Exactly. I used to love Chyna back in the day but it sure as hell wasn’t for her wrestling. I thought it was cool that she would beat up guys. Looking back I can clearly see she wasn’t really that good in the ring at all and Trish was shit back then too so this is just a mess.
Jhonmarco Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
Excellent point. The whole “Chyna’s strength” thing completely overshadowed people’s thoughts on here. Immediately it was “Chyna’s wrestling men? FUCK YEAH!” I felt for anyone who had to work with her.
No Holds Barred Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
I always thought Chyna was awful anyway.. even back in those days, I really wished she had stayed away from Divas wrestling.
Ivory as WWF Womens Champion was amazing and I hoped she would drop the title to Jackie or Molly because at least we would get a good match out of it. But Chyna completely ruined Ivory’s momentum going into WM 17 by no-selling her moves.
javiousmckenzie Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
Chyna has had very interesting matches with man and held her own without being carried as far as the women it was just awkward period seeing a women her size in there with divas
redsandman99 Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
Chris Jericho would disagree with her not needing to be carried. It was just too awkward to see her in there with the women and her not selling anything the girls did to her didn’t help at all.
Raekon Reply:
May 1st, 2012 at
@REDSANDMAN99
Jericho badmouthed her mostly because he didn’t wanted a woman to compete with man and most of all no woman to win against a man.
That’s also why in his feud in which he and christian feuded with trish and lita both girls weren’t allowed to show any impactfull offence and that’s also why Chyna never really got to win against him.
With other words, what he is saying has nothing to do with her skill in the ring or the mic or segments (she had the whole package), it was because of his view about man vs women in the ring.
mojodoom Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
Most people are over rating the quality of matches that we got during that time period. There’s a gem here and there but there was a lot more of the cringe worthy flailing around in the ring too.
Molly was probably the best out of all the women who occasionally wrestle men back in that time period. Followed by Jackie and then maybe Chyna.
Kessuki Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
i know this is wwe talk but madusa faired much better than all 3 during her wcw days.
Raekon Reply:
May 1st, 2012 at
There was no finisher Mikas, it was one of her regular moves and was ok.
The main reason why they didn’t let her get dominated about the weaker looking divas was because she was competing against men.
So if smaller and weaker looking divas would get the best off her, it would also look the males chyna won against look even weaker and that was something they didnt wanted at all.
They only let stronger women compete against males like Jaqueline and Chyna. Lita got to compete against smaller and weaker looking males on her size so stronger males won’t lose credibility either.
If you check what the rock and the others brought to the table back then you will see that chyna was equal and partially even better in the ring than they were with their cena like 4 – 5 momentum basic moves and a finisher.
Alone the tons of bumps she got from all the males in the inside and outside of the ring had shown how good she actually was.
Every male heel that feuded with her when she was a face got over immediately as a credible heel and got booed 24/7 so she didn’t only helped the womens division but also the males one.
So people can put her down as much as they want, fact is she was good and the total package of in ring, mic and segment work.
Matches of her feuds like Armageddon 2000, Chyna vs Val Venis
or Radicalz vs Stone Cold,The Rock, Chyna, Billy Gunn – 13/11/2000
or Eddie & Chyna Vs Val Venis & Trish Stratus- Summerslam 2000 in which Chyna won the IC Title by pinning Trish were all good matches.
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After that match was the Lita vs Chyna match at Judgement Day which is a awesome match.
Looking at Trish at her prime makes me wonder what would it be like to see Chyna vs Trish again?
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People hating on Chyna so bad a real legend in the business more groundbreaking than Sable, Lita or Trish the biggest star (during her time) of the divas no other diva has done as much as Chyna she was a pop culture icon my grandmother knew who Chyna was.
Taylor Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
I wouldn’t say she was more groundbreaking. She was groundbreaking in an area most women weren’t allowed in: the men’s division. The only reason she was there was because she looked the part whereas women like Sable, Lita, and Trish could not. Kharma can do what Chyna did and more if given the same opportunities because she looks the part and has the wrestling down.
redsandman99 Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
^This
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 1st, 2012 at
I see your point however chyna did it and you can’t dispute that. whether she was good or not is a matter of personal opinion . she had the political know how and backing . she is the most known women’s wrestler ever . she had more cross over exposure more than any other female in the business . that alone males her groundbraking. whether or not someone ‘else` should have done it doesn’t matter , becuase she did and no one else ever will.
Taylor Reply:
May 1st, 2012 at
I’m not disputing her importance, Bryan. I’m simply stating that it’s wrong to say she was more groundbreaking than Sable, Lita, or Trish. She was groundbreaking in the men’s division. The other three women were groundbreaking in the women’s division. No one woman was more important than the other three. Kharma can definitely do what Chyna did and more. She just needs to be given the same opportunities.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 1st, 2012 at
like I said I completely understand you. however karma will never get the opportunities she did, regardless of how good she is, especially noin this climate. if not saying she doesn’t have the ability its just what chynA has done in the business will likely never be done again… and for that she is groundbraking (which I get u understand ) . as far as in comparison to others. I definitely believe she was more groundbraking than trish or lita . you may disagree … but I very much believe lita and trish rode the wave women like chyna and sable created . sable sex appeal and chynas look and physicality appealed to people like never before . chyna would later combine both and cross over to multiple areas of the entertainment business . trish and lita certainly never did so many things as these women and were morphed into the mould of previous and imo more groundbraking females . smart sexy powerful right? who do u think fits that mould in a literal sense? (not trying to be smart or anything )
Taylor Reply:
May 1st, 2012 at
Whether she will or won’t is to be seen. The agents let her slam Dolph Ziggler, so I won’t rule out a run in the men’s division yet. If given the same opportunities, I think Kharma can easily surpass Chyna.
I think you’re overrating Chyna here. She posed for Playboy ages ago and currently is an adult film star. I’d call myself a casual wrestling fan who started watching WWE around 2002-2003, and I can honestly assert that I never knew/heard of Chyna before finding the online wrestling communities.
Are you saying Trish and Lita “never did so many things” as Sable? You’re wrong here. Trish and Lita did everything Sable did and more. The only thing Trish and Lita weren’t able to duplicate was Chyna’s involvement in the men’s division, and I’ve already addressed why.
“Smart, Sexy, and Powerful” applies more so to Trish and Lita, because they encompass all three words. Sable was not powerful; the woman barely wrestled. Chyna is probably not considered sexy if you’re comparing her to Trish, Sable, and Lita. And if we’re talking about this mold outside of wrestling, only Trish fits it. She’s a successful businesswoman with an ever-growing brand, which takes care of smart and powerful, and she looks better than ever, which takes care of sexy.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
I HIGHLY doubt Kharma will be given the same opportunites as chyna. the political atmosphere is much different and the wreslting business is in a different era. as far as her surpassing chyna the only thing she would do would be to win the wwe title…she pretty much did everything else. im not saying she isnt capable to do anything chyna has done, of course she is, its just already been done.
as far as overestimating her…i am just going by fact. if you only started wtaching in 2002 then it makes senese you didnt hear of her considering they cut all ties with her compeltely after the whole ordeal. in 2000-2001 she was on countless mainstream magazines (tv guide, entertainment weekly with the rock stone cold etc) and tv shows, you name it, at her pinacle she was on or had been on pretty much anything. best selling fitness video (at the time) as well as best selling book and best selling playboy of all time. her skyrocketing to fame has not been duplicated. statisically, it has been reported that she was earning 1.3 million in that period due to all of these things, more than any other female. that alone has not been done by lita trish or sable, let alone her in the mens division. Of course you can have personal opinion, thats fine, but im going of bits of evidence here.
smart sexy and powerful definetly fits the mould of chyna (talking in terms of pinacle of career). how is trish powerful (realistically?). Chynas best selling playboy i think takes care of sexy and i perosnally think she was a smoking hot babe towards the end of her career :P. Smart? She has (or had maybe) an IQ of 170 and worked for acclaimed organisations like the UN and FBI. The wwf put her over early in her career for her GED results (apparently they were insanely high..although i dont understand them im not american). Poweful? obviously. Persoanlly, i dont think any other female fits it like her.
Taylor Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
Kharma has the political backing of Triple H, who also backed Chyna. Let’s see where this takes her. When I mean surpass Chyna, I specifically mean duplicate what Chyna did at a more refined level (e.g., Sable gave us Diva and Trish perfected it).
The reason I stated what time I started watching was to make a point that Chyna was not this huge icon that transcended WWE. Did wrestling fans know of her? Absolutely. How about some people outside the scope of wrestling? Sure. Was she a household name outside of WWE? Absolutely not. The point I’m trying to make is that she is not bigger than WWE; in other words, she’s not comparable to The Rock. After she left/was fired, she never reached the peak of her success again. Covering magazines like TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly should not equate to super-stardom as these are low-end magazines. If she were to grace People you would have more support. Your claim that “she was on or had been on pretty much anything” is false. Was she ever featured in Vogue, Bazaar, Elle, Glamour, and/or Time to name a few magazines that actually matter? Gracing these covers would indicate major celebrity power. What TV shows did she appear in? Were they shows with a viewership greater than one million? Chyna’s issue of Playboy is not the magazine’s best selling. What’s your source of that? That claim belongs to a model from the 70s. You might want to check some of that evidence. You’re overrating her by miles. She was a wrestler not Madonna.
You don’t think Trish is powerful? Do you recall her physique during her time in WWE? She was almost all muscle. A few videos of her carrying male hosts of shows she’s appeared on have been uploaded to YouTube. Check them out. I certainly can’t carry men. I would consider most women who enter the ring to wrestle powerful in terms of strength. If you consider Chyna sexy, you’re entitled to your opinion. However, I think it’s safe to assume that most males would find Trish, Sable, and Lita more physically attractive than Chyna.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but I burst out laughing when I read that you think Chyna has an IQ of 170. Albert Einstein doesn’t even have an IQ of 170; Einstein’s predicted/measured IQ is 160. Do you really expect anyone to believe that Chyna is smarter than Einstein? GED (General Education Diploma) results indicate a person’s mastery of high school-level academics. Those tests aren’t difficult. And the only people who take them are those that have dropped out of high school and have decided to return to earn a high school diploma. Let me give you a personal example: I got a perfect score on my SATs (more challenging than GED tests) and I’m fairly certain that I don’t have an IQ of 170.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
Saying Kharma has the backing of triple h means a lot less now than it did back then. even though he now has a top role, he basically had the ear of vince and less red tape than he would today. Plus, if its triple h he’ll want to make it his own (which obviously chyna would not allow), for example sin cara was a triple h project and look where that went. Plus it was not just Triple h she had, she had vince russo, shane o mac etc etc. I undersntand what you mean in terms of surpassing Chyna in that sense, and sure she has the ability. will it matter as much? probably not. I would rather see her in a really good storyline than doing the same things as chyna did even if they are better.
Chyna a household name? i can say no to that, thats not what i was implying. im talking in comparison, and she was definetely the closest thing in terms of a female (my mum knew who she was/is and doesnt know what a roll up is) All her accolades have not been duplicated by anyone. thats why i wrote them (not just her in the mens div). In terms of magazines or w/e I dont know about the popularity of each one and thus i cant give it justice. What i can say is some like (TV Guide) had much more exposure back then than today (less now due to int etc). For Chyna, it was more quantity than quality… i can count around 20 at the top of my head that she was on including wwe mags. Tonnes of fittness mags aswell, that would vary in populatiry. i Remeber her newsweek cover was talked about quite a bit, where she shared it with the Rock. Tv Shows – 3rd rock form the Sun (emmy award show), regis and kelly (seen by millions), Jay Leno, Mad tv, whose line is it anyway…these had much much more than a million viewers. indded some were to do with the wwe, which she did a heap of. If she werent a star, the wwe would not have sent her to do so many.
As for the best selling playboy, I too have disputed that like you. but its really hard to say even with the 1970′s model as many different websites say different people. However i based mine off the fact that Sean Waltman of all people confirmed it, as well as chyna on many occasions (for what that is worth). Remeber though, she was being seen by around 20 million per week. She shattered Sables, i know that for sure – so in comparison she is superior so it is definetely up there (the wwf plugged it many times)
As far as her intelligence – believe me i know its hard to believe. But its in her book as well as her stating it a couple of times. The wwf plugged her perfect or near perfect score on the SAT’s (not GED, my bad) a couple of times when she started out. I doubt she has 170, but its certainly not impossible. Speaking fluent (or used to) in 4 languages would definetely take someone of very high intelligence though.
Besides, im not trying to prove that shes this force to be rekoned with. im just showing that in comparison to the other divas, she surpasses them in almost every aspect, just figure wise not personal opinion.
Taylor Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
The simple fact that Kharma even has political backing means a great deal when no other woman today has that. From the looks of how Kharma was introduced, I think Triple H and his team have the best intentions for her character. Clearly Vince McMahon is high on her as well. Time will tell where she goes and the limits she shatters.
Trish has graced countless magazines before, during, and after her WWE tenure (e.g., fitness magazines, WWE magazines, Divas magazines, etc.). Chyna is not the only female to cover TV Guide; Trish also has a few covers. So I guess that accolade has been duplicated. Trish has appeared on MADtv alone and with other wrestlers while in WWE; again, that accolade has been duplicated. Trish has appeared on morning, evening talks shows internationally while with WWE; accolade duplicated.
The exposure of TV Guide has never meant anything. It’s a low-end magazine that really anyone on TV can land the cover of. The magazines I listed are exclusive to major celebrities and models only, and each of those titles has a circulation greater than one million.
Again, I’m not disputing your claim that she was a star; she was, but she wasn’t as popular as you think she was. She’s virtually non-existent now; clearly she was able to maintain her level of stardom whereas Trish is only expanding her brand and star power. As for the Playboy claim, I think you should just drop it. Playboy magazine would acknowledge her as the best selling if it were true; they don’t — they acknowledge the model from the 70s. Playboy is a far more reputable source in this case than Chyna or Sean Waltman.
It’s hard to believe, because it’s probably not true. Just because she included that in her book doesn’t mean anything. Again, nothing about her reflects an IQ of 170, and it’s simply a fact that she is not mentally superior to Albert Einstein. Fluency in languages is not easy, but not impossible.
I disagree. Her accolades aren’t unique to her except for competing in the men’s division. I listed magazines and shows Trish appeared on and was featured in. She posed for Playboy, but so did countless other Divas. She may have had the highest sales for a Diva, but that doesn’t mean the accolade (if you’d like to call it that) of posing for the magazine is exclusive to her. Like I said, you’ve overrated her.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
political backing is such a vague term and virtually means nothing until proven. wouldn’t every superstar be told they have the best intentions for them? we will have to wait and see… I just dont see kharma becoming contender for the wwe title anytime soon or at all.
when I’m talking about the tv shows etc I’m talking about the cross over into the mainstream as an acolade in itself… of course other divas have done similar things. however I can’t think of any diva that has done them all and in such a short amount of time at the pinnacle of the wrestling business . thus chyna on paper surpasses them. did trish cover mags with the rock stone cold? not that I can think of. sable did but then she didn’t do many other things chyna accomplished .
chyna is virtually non existent ? that is certainly not true. whether or not u agree with the wag she has maintained some exposure (I personally don’t agree) surreal life was a huge success as well as celebrity Rehab . her adult film career is actually quite staggering . her film has outdone many wrestlemania ppv buys as it was reported that the film sold 750 000 copies and that has only increased as it was a few months ago. avn actually relased a chart where her film sits at number 2 as the best selling (either of all time or last year…. its unclear). I personally would rather see her do something else but its a definite success. she is fare from non existent . as far as trish goes… I don’t know much about her besides the yoga products , I haven’t seen or heard anything about it being successful but please inform me as I’m sure you would like to.
as far as playboy I have to agree with you but it just seems odd to me that people would say it without it being true. not saying I’m gullible or anything but what would Sean have to gain? its been marked without question as one of the best selling ever so id imagine it would be up there.
IQ is not the only thing that can measure intelligence and just because Einstein didn’t have an iq of that doesn’t make chyna ‘superior’ . there are many professors etc that have an iq above 170 but they don’t go claiming to be smarter or superior to Einstein. if you gother a perfect score then you ars in the minute of minorities , so to you speaking fluent in 4 languages may not seem impossible but to most people that shows an incredible amount of intellect .a nyway this is not the issue its about comparison. which again chyna sure
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
(contd.) surpasses *
btw about the shows …. I have not seen trish on the major talk shows like register… say Leno etc. (i could be wrong) let alone appearances on 3rd rock or whos line which weren’t we related ..so I don’t think they compare.
the amount of exposure has that been duplicated(shows, best selling boom, video, mags etc) ? no. highest selling playboy (of divas or possibly all… not just posing of course I can recognise that has been duplicated) been duplicated or beaten? no. her feats as a woman in the men’s division? nope.
Taylor Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
There are already rumors swirling about the angles Kharma will be involved in. Clearly those backing Kharma have the best intentions in mind. The backstage team is clearly putting thought and time into her. And no, not every wrestler is told that the WWE has the best intentions for him/her and history is witness to that.
What crossover into mainstream? She has not accomplished this. The only ex-WWE employee to cross over into mainstream culture is The Rock. Chyna was able to appear on those shows while with the WWE, because WWE’s PR team made it possible like they do with every other current star that appears on shows. Even Mickie James has appeared on Psych, a hit TV show. Clearly Chyna is not the only Diva to appear on a scripted television series. It doesn’t matter the amount of time; what matters is that these accolades are not exclusive to Chyna; they have been duplicated. Your original argument about her exclusive accolades is false then.
Does it matter that Trish didn’t share a cover with The Rock or Steve Austin? If you know anything about the publishing industry, you’d know then that it is much more lucrative to grace a solo cover. Trish’s magazines sold perfectly fine with just her on the cover and they still do, which is why she continues to score more covers.
Reality shows are always successful, because of the way they’re scripted. Those shows might have been successful — I really don’t know much about them — because of the entire cast, which is why it’s difficult to assert which “celebrity” attracted the most viewers. Chyna’s fan base is still largely from wrestling; she hasn’t attracted many outside this medium. Just look at how many followers she has on Twitter as one form of proof that she’s actually not as popular as you say she is in mainstream culture. Women like Jennifer Lopez, Britney Spears, and so on have five-plus million. As far as her porn career, I haven’t the slightest idea. A quick Google search doesn’t link me to any articles that speak of breaking all-time records, though.
It’s obvious that you don’t follow Trish then. The amount of media attention she receives in Canada is proof enough that she is a success. If her products weren’t successful she wouldn’t continue to produce them. She’s a businesswoman and always has been. She continues to land magazine covers (more Canadian magazines as she hasn’t yet tried to enter the American market) and appear on popular Canadian talk shows. I’m not from Canada so much of her work is unavailable to me as well. I do my best to follow though.
Who are these “people” making such claims about Chyna’s Playboy issues besides Chyna herself and Sean Waltman? If it were true, Playboy would justify the claim. What exactly does Hugh Hefner have to lose? Nothing.
You are by far underestimating IQ scores here. Most professors don’t have an IQ of over 170. Do you realize what an IQ of 170 actually means? It indicates genius. Only about 0.25 percent of the world’s population has an IQ over 140, and I am absolutely certain that Chyna is not part of that quarter-of-one-percent group.
Do you understand the language development process? It’s only difficult to become fluent in languages later in life. If you start learning languages early on, you can easily pick them up as both the left and right lobes of your brain process languages. And if Chyna’s recent disastrous life is taken into account, she clearly is not in the right state of mind.
I don’t think Trish has appeared on Leno before, but she has been on a CNBC (or it could have been MSNBC) show. During Trish’s time, the Divas weren’t too involved in Hollywood, but that has changed recently. I referred Mickie James’s appearance on Psych above somewhere.
I don’t understand why you’re tweaking your claims. You originally stated that these accolades were exclusive to Chyna and I proved they weren’t. I never argued the amount of exposure. Even then, Trish has represented the WWE in many capacities internationally from the time she became the face of the Divas. So yes, her accolades have been duplicated. Believe what you want though.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 3rd, 2012 at
Rumours are just that. Anyway we will just have to wait and see, but i really really doubt it. Believe what you want to believe i guess.
Chyna did cross over into the mainstream during her tenure, or at least she got the most exposure to it than any other female before or after her. Im not saying she crossed over and stayed there. But she definetely delved into wreslting and mainstream during 2000. Thats why i am listing all the things she has done, which others have not. How many times do i have to say this? im talking about COMPARISON here. Of course other divas have done TV Shows. But Chyna did MANY more than them, and ones that were much more popular. What diva has been on Whos line is it Anyway, Jay Leno, 3rd Rock, Mad TV in the space of a year or even thier whole career? no one. Im trying to prove superiortty on paper and in comparison. The level is exposure as a whole has not been duplicated; thats the very first thing i stated. of course im not stupid enough to say other divas have no been on TV Shows.
Again trish doing covers really has no baring when we are talking about my piont as a whole. She graced 3 major mags in Newsweek, Playboy, and to an extent TV Guide in the space of a couple of years. Along with the TV shows, the fitness video, her book etcetc. Who has done that much, or had that much exposure to the mainstream audience? no one. You have to remeber also, that wreslting was pretty much the mainstream back then, so Chyna’s wreslting related appaearances, book etc count for much more than say, a trish video in 2003. She was showcased as the 2nd best athlete (i know she isnt) when wrestling was watched at a cable rating of 7.0 (1st) in America Alone.
I can agree with you about your piont about the Reality show, but the fact is it was a very successful show. She would not been put on the show if she did not have any celebrity status (even though it was significantly less than at her pinacle). I can agree that her major fanbase is from wresling (myself). However i never said that she IS a mainstream figure, i dont know where that came from. I am talking about the pinacle of her career. Yes her twitter is high because she is not a constant public figure these days BUT she is still successful with that she is doing, therefore she still has some mainstream exposure. I would be happy to link you the evidence, but Diva Dirt posts dont accept them for some reason.
As far as Trish success i can definetaly recognise that (persoanlly i never hear of it besides from this site), but if we are tlaking about success at the pinacle of careers (which is what i was referring) then Chyna definetaly surpassses her. Chynas earnings doubled Trish’s in her prime. Besides, Sable would have earnt much more than Trish, so really Trish success is not in the same league. Outside of thier pinacle, thats a whole nother story.
As far as playboy, I do agree with you, i Just dont understand why someone who has so much bad blood with her as he does would say that. As far as Playboy wanting to dispute the claim — Chyna has been somewhat of a tabliod trainwreck over the years (but managed to keep her in the media), that could be a reason.
With the whole IQ thing — I will agree. I find it to hard to believe as well. Im just going of what her book states as well as what she has said, i know she could easily be lying. However, she is definetely of superior intellegence — 4 langauges would take some of very high intellect regardless, as well as a perfect ACT score — something which (to my knowledge) Lita Trish or Sable dont have. In fact i do understnad the language developement proccess, I leanrt Japanese through high school and it is not easy. Learning one was difficult enough, 4 (german is a specifically hard language to become fluent in) i cant imagine myself doing, and I would consider myself as someone as above average intelligence (not sounding dickish or anything..) Saying you can pick 4 languages as a child and becoming fluent in them to me is laughable. It would take someone of exceedingly high intelligence to do so, regardless of age.
As far as TV shows, again, no other diva did as MANY as she did, and ones with such a ‘mainstream’ (if you will) following. Was trish on 3rd Rock? no. Whos line? no. Leno? dont think so.Mad tv? Yes. Fear Factor Celebtriy? not that i know of. accepted for auditions in roles like terminator 3 or wonder woman? no. I could go on. Im proving her vast exposure to a wider audience as a whole which has not been duplicated. This is eveidence, which is the very first thing i stated when i was listing them. I have not tweaked anything. I never said being on a TV show or posing for playboy etc was exclusive to her. The amount of exposure as whole is exclusive to her. one of the first things is said. All these listings are evidence. Has trish represented the wwe? of course. but so has lita and sable. Chyna on 3 MAJOR talk shows promoting i have not seen fomr other females — but thats another piont in itself.
I will believe that chyna is superior than the other divas, because its on paper. Did trish ever earn 1.3 million without royalities from ppv’s at her pinacle? no. Sable would be the closest, her playboy deal was reportedly around 1 million. I can garantee that if you went around to people in the street at the context of each women’s pinacle, more people would know who Chyna was. Substantially over Lita and trish, maybe less so over Sable — but evidence wise, it would appear she was superior. So im pretty confident about what i believe in.
Taylor Reply:
May 3rd, 2012 at
Me and the large majority of Diva fans will believe just that.
As I stated before, the only ex-employee who has crossed over into Hollywood has been The Rock. What Chyna did should not be considered crossing over. She participated in shows while with WWE, because WWE’s PR team made it possible. The Rock has accomplished all he has in Hollywood without that team. She may have gotten the most exposure, because, like you said, the WWE was more prominent in those years.
You stated, “All her accolades have not been duplicated by anyone,” above somewhere. I proved that this was not the case. Your opinion that I quoted was quite extreme, which is why I dispelled it. I hope you’re clear as to why I stated what several Divas have done to duplicate what Chyna (and Sable) did. I’ve already stated that Chyna had a faster rise if you recall. No other Divas have been given the opportunity to appear on the shows Chyna did because 1) the WWE lost a good chunk of its fame and following, and 2) the WWE is, for the most part, insecure about letting women rise to their full potentials, because they want to avoid the Sables and Chynas. The second reason is precisely why I believe Trish and Lita weren’t given as many opportunities, although they were given some.
Again, Trish’s magazine covers as well as appearances in the media during the later years of her career matter. Wrestling ratings had dropped largely and she was still in demand. That is a feat in and of itself. Chyna and Sable had the luxury of showcasing themselves at a time when wrestling was red hot. This obviously factors into their successes. One can speculate that Chyna may not have been as successful had her career begun with Trish’s and Lita’s.
Chyna was cast for the rehab show because her life was a total mess, which makes for entertaining television. You said she entered mainstream culture. What would you call someone who has entered that culture? A mainstream figure.
Pornography is not what many would consider mainstream. Mainstream is usually synonymous with Hollywood. For that reason, I don’t consider porn mainstream. If you do, you’re entitled to your opinion.
I don’t understand why you would assume Chyna earned “double” that of Trish. She may have earned more without royalties, but to attach a number is somewhat irrational considering you do not know what Trish’s salary was. I’d rather not even address salaries, because we’re, more or less, addressing speculation than fact.
Why are we still addressing Playboy? Why would you list him as a credible source. Citing Sean Waltman is like citing Wikipedia. I’ve already proven that her issue is not the best selling, so I won’t address this again.
Have you listened to Chyna speak? The woman has a hard time putting together a cohesive sentence sometimes. I find it hard to believe she is of “superior intelligence.” And have you actually heard her speak in any language with fluency besides English? What’s your source on this? Chyna herself? If that’s the case, I’d be skeptical if I were you. GED, SAT, or ACT? Which of these tests is it? You’ve listed three different tests, and now I’m having a hard time taking you seriously. As far as Trish, she is far more intelligent than Chyna. Just look at how she leads her life. Additionally, Trish was studying to become a doctor. This path is not easy by any means, and I would know considering I too am studying to be a surgeon.
The claim of picking up many languages as a child may be laughable to you, but I’ve picked up three. I never thought it was difficult. And no, it doesn’t take “someone of exceedingly high intelligence to do so.” Look to the Asian and African counties where languages are abundant. Asian and African kids learn from an early age when both lobes work together to absorb languages.
I’ve already addressed this above, but let’s gloss over it again… I never stated that Trish or Lita have had the amount of exposure Chyna has. I stated that her accolades were duplicated, because you said they were exclusive to her; I quoted you too. I hope that’s clear to you know.
As I said originally, Chyna was groundbreaking as far as the men’s division goes. She was not as groundbreaking in the women’s division as Trish and Lita. And of course more people would know of Chyna and Sable during their primes, because that was when wrestling was at its most popular. Much of their success was because of wrestling’s popularity. Most of Trish’s and Lita’s success was due to their bright star power when wrestling lost some of its groove. I still don’t see why you’re addressing salaries. Chyna’s salary might have been exposed, but Trish’s and Lita’s salaries have never been confirmed.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 4th, 2012 at
I love how you say that lik I am some radical minority. Im not trying to be pessimistic, i just honestly dont see kharma surpassing chyna in becoming wwe champion. Improve on her accomplishments in the men’s division? Sure. But like i said, it wont matter as much, to me anyway.
The Rock accomplished all he did without the team? Really? In the rocks first few movies, a certain percentage of the intake went to the WWF. He did not get those opportunities without them. Now, of course he has because he is a mega mainstream star, but thats after he phased out ties with the WWF. Like i said before, “Chyna did cross over into the mainstream during her TENURE, or at least she got the most exposure to it than any other female before or after her. ” I am arguing the level of exposure as a form of this. She DID cross over, or partly, during the height of her success, but of course she did not stay there. The Rock is the only one.
My exact quote was “All her accolades have not been duplicated by anyone. thats why i wrote them (not just her in the mens div)”. I am arguing the accolade of exposure as a whole, as well as her in the mens division, and the best selling playboy ( at least in comparison). some of the accomplishments within those accolades are accolades themselves like for instance, Whos Line, bestt selling book, best selling fitness video purely because they have not been done by any other female. as a whole, no other female has duplicated that. i made that quite clear in my first piont “she had more cross over exposure more than any other female in the business .”
As far as “no other divas no doing the same”, its just speculation that lita and trish could have done the same if the positions were reversed. but to me thats just trivial, fact is fact, and on paper they didnt. as far as the 2nd reason “avoiding sables and chynas”.. if you are referring to ego, many wrestlers (eddie gurerro) that it was not just ego that Chyna got hard to work with. The whole leaving her fro Steph (regardless if he broke up with her first, it still happened) would take a strain on any workplace env. No one looked at triple H the same after that (Ivory said this). Many facts of her departure are really vague and dont make sense. So i would say ego was not as much a facotr than it was for sable, but i can partly agree with your piont. Regardless, whats fact is fact.
“Chyna and sable had the luxury of being in wreslting when it was red hot.” You do realise that Lita and Trish were wrelsting in 2000 right? Lita was HUGELY over in that time, on par with Chyna. Trish at that time was just another blond bombshell – which she would later change. Sable got over in a matter of a few months, so lita and trish could (and lita did) have, but they just didnt reach that upper pinnacle as far exposure like sable and Chyna did. So i wouldnt say being in the industry when it was red hot is really justified, considering they all were in it at the time. Trish did not reach her pinaccle until after not because she wasnt in the wreslting industry when it was red hot, because she was. Lita certainly did.
Where did i say she entered mainstream culture in relation to Surreal Life? She did during her peak with the WWF, but not in surreal life i never said that (but she did still have some staus due to the sex tape etc.). This was just a show that kept her somewhat relevant, regardless if she was a total mess. I dont get the whole piont of a mainstream figure – besides its such a vague term, and there are differentl levels of celebrity. I think you are equating her being on surreal life meaning she is this huge mainstream figure (and how i somehow implied that) – which is not true. It kept her somewhat relevant. It didnt make her this huge celebrity.
As far as pornography, I wouldn’t consider specifically mainstream, but its one of those industries like wrestling which has those people that can go into it (Jenna Jameson), or the industry being shone on now and again in mainstream culture (celebrity sex tapes etc). Chynas movie got some mainstream attention — it was XBIZ Premiere Magazine Names Top 100 Newsmakers of 2011, featured on TMZ etc. Thats why its Vivid’s best selling Video ever (one of, if not the top company) with over 800.000 sales. I am by no means justifying what she has done, but you cannot deny its success.
Salaries are exposed all the time. Trish was reportedly earning just over 600,000 +merch (which is really good) in her peak, but Chyna surpasses that reportedly earning $1.3 Mil (salary + sales) not including ppv’s or commission from playboy, therefore around double (in terms of base). It is speculatory, but these are published on many reputable wrestling websites.
As far as playboy, I already said i agreed with you, plus its still relevant because i said before “She shattered Sables, i know that for sure – so in comparison she is superior so it is definetely up there (the wwf plugged it many times)”. obviously Trish or Lita didnt do it, but I dont see them beating Sable (who was the hottest thing ever during her prime) let alone Chyna (much more of a novelty with massive exposure to wider audience) — especially since they did it at the peak of the wreslting business. Just look at the divas who did it after her. So its still relevant.
Ouch at the statement in trying to put together a statement lol. yes maybe now, but before she had an array of mental issues she was. type in “Chyna Raw Is War Backstage Segment 02.09.1998 ” or “Chyna hablando Español ” into youtube — no amount of scripting can show someone speaking that fluently, especially live. Also a 2000 article called “Chyna’s Dynasty” addresses this. yes it is in interview where she says her language adoption, but her travels in the peace corp, as well as her university degree in Spanish literature and 2 other langauges is well documented. Any more sources you might nees let me know. As far as the tests, i have no idea which one it is because I am not American, I am Australian and we have 1 not 3 different high School qualifications. I am assuming the one that allows you into university — i remember the wwf plugging her perfect or near perfect score in her early career. As far as Trish being smarter, on paper she is not. She does/did not have fluency in 4 languages, an accredited Uni degree or perfect (or near perfect) ‘insert test name here’ Score (that i know of). As far as i know she was studying some aspects of science, but considering she didnt complete it it doesnt really matter. I mean anyone with above average intel can study to become a doctor (different unis ave different levels to get in) but actually completeing the course is very difficult, something she didnt so. as far living her life, i would agree with you, but then again she has not had the mental problems that Chyna has, both what Chyna has done to herself and what has been done to her.
Well if you have picked up 3 good for you, you are certainly in the minority. as far as Asian and African countries, they hav many different dialecs, not languages, many cross over with each other. 4 completely seperate languages plus university degrees and perfect ‘insert test name here’ score (which i am positive African or Asian kids, at least the very large majority dont have) would take some one of very high intelligence. Why can’t you see that?
I feel like I am talking to a brick wall. Her accolades are: men’s division, exposure (where some are accolades in of themselves), and playboy success – all in terms of her prime (obviously, standard far all divas considering that the whole point of this, a comparison between the top crop).
As far as groundbreaking in the womens division, chynas success as WOMAN period shouldnt be separated. besides she is the 1st undefeated womens champ, sharing that title with trish (who has lost as champ) and layla – so she is actually groundbreaking in the womens division. Just because wrestling was in its prime doesn’t mean everyone was automatically successful – there were many undercard guys getting next to nothing. Besides Chyna was constantly part of something successful, DX, Triple H and Chyna, Corporation (she was in highest rated raw segments in history), Intercontinental Champ, Mamasita Gimmick. They all drew, many things were a flop in the height of the wrestling business but things like the Rock, Stone Cold, DX kept it hot. Chyna was very successful as an upper mid card, which is attributed to her not because of the height of the wrestling business that just amplified her success. She could have easily been a flop, but she wasnt. Salary is a reflection of that, it shows who draws. Chyna certianly did, and so did Trish and Lita, but they just never reached that level (salary wise) due to many factors but not just because of the height of the wrestling business.
So i feel like i have made myself as clear as i can be. her accolades in the mens division as a woman (wrestling), exposure to the mainstream media and her playboy success (fame) have not been duplicated in comparison, and these incorporate all aspects of a successful wrestler. Therefore Chyna overshadows Trish, Lita and Sable. – Signing off.
Taylor Reply:
May 4th, 2012 at
It won’t matter to you, but will to many fans who are desperate for the revitalization of women in some manner. And she doesn’t necessarily need to become WWE Champion; she can hold the belts Chyna held (of course not the Women’s Championship for obvious reasons) for a longer period of time or greater number of reigns.
The Rock was probably the biggest star of that era; he would have landed some Hollywood roles with or without WWE. My reasoning with that is he essentially became bigger than the WWE itself, which has never been done before unless maybe you want to count Hulk Hogan. Chyna may have dipped her toes in the vast mainstream sea, but she never actually swam, during and after her tenure. I already agreed with you in, like, my second reply that she had the most exposure. Many male stars today also appear on popular late night shows, but I don’t consider that crossing over into mainstream.
If you recall, my first few posts never even mentioned Hollywood. When I spoke of groundbreaking, I was specifically referring to the WWE only. For this reason, I stated that I felt Trish and Lita were more groundbreaking in the women’s division than Chyna was. This is pretty much fact. Trish and Lita brought attention to themselves and the division as a whole. Chyna simply brought attention to herself. When she did wrestle other women, fans usually wanted to see her squash her opponents, which happened in all of her matches except for maybe her last match with Lita.
The part I quoted from your paragraph can be interpreted in many different ways. Whatever way you’re presenting it now, I still stick to my original statement that her accolades have been duplicated, just maybe not to their fullest extents. And of course no other woman has exactly duplicated her Hollywood appearances. To state that for argument purposes is unreasonable simply because of how unlikely it is for future employees to copy a former employees exact lineup, for lack of a better word.
I stated that the WWE didn’t want to create Sables and Chynas, because management didn’t want the women to reach that level. I’m not addressing egos. It’s well documented today (e.g., Gail Kim’s shoot) that the WWE wants females to stand around and look pretty. While this wasn’t the case during much of Trish’s and Lita’s careers, that mentality, I believe, didn’t just spring up after those two left. It was always there; many men backstage have always been wary of women towering over them.
Trish made her debut in 2000, but she was thrown into a pool of “blonde bombshells.” Sable (and Sunny) rose to the top quickly because their looks were unique at that time. When Trish arrived, Sunny, Sable, Terri, and The Kat all belonged to that category of “blonde bombshell” that it was no longer special. Trish during her debut was not unique or special whereas Chyna and Lita were. Those two represented and still do represent the “anti-Diva.” It’s no surprise they became immensely popular quickly.
In regards to her reality appearances, I was referring to you arguing her celebrity status. A major reason, if not the sole reason, she and others were cast was because of how messed up their lives were. The second sentence/part was not connected to the reality shows. It was in reply to you asking how the term “mainstream figure” entered the conversation. If you’re somehow involved in the mainstream culture, you are considered a mainstream figure. The reason this point was made was to compare her to other figures in the media to prove that she is no longer as popular as she was and to also prove that she wasn’t as popular back then when compared to the celebrities I listed. In her defense though, even The Rock is not as popular and probably will never be as popular as Jennifer Lopez, Britney Spears, etc.
Salaries of celebrities are exposed on Forbes, but Forbes doesn’t cover wrestling. Wrestling websites are obviously not as reputable as Forbes in reporting salaries; therefore, those “exposed” salaries are still speculations. Although I’m positive Trish and Chyna both made millions with royalties, I’d rather not speculate. You shouldn’t either if you’re wrapped around facts and figures. Trish hasn’t and probably never will disclose her earnings. I’m not sure if Chyna has.
I’ll say it yet again: In Chyna’s case, if she can speak four languages, it doesn’t indicate superior intelligence. She studied language in college. So do thousands of others, but that doesn’t mean they are all of superior intelligence. I’m not brushing this accomplishment off; I’m simply stating that it doesn’t take superior intelligence.
Obviously Trish didn’t finish her schooling, but not due to her own problems. The professors striking was out of her control. On paper or not, these two are far from the college age now. How they lead their lives now factors into this more so than college. Currently, Trish clearly handles her life more intelligently.
A lot of Asian countries have different languages, not just dialects. This is well documented. Furthermore, Asian kids today not only speak their mother tongue, but English, and probably another Asian language. The reason is because they are taught at an early age. Switching to Chyna, maybe she had a knack for languages over, let’s say, math/science? It really depends on which part of your brain is dominant.
If you feel that way how do you think I feel? I stated this time and time again, Chyna’s only exclusive accolade was wrestling men and, as stated above, some of her lineup.
Her success should be separated between divisions. She did not elevate the women’s division like Trish and Lita. She was there for such a short time too, and she didn’t want to be there either. The only reason she was undefeated as champion is because she left/was fired before she could drop the belt to Lita as was reported. No, she is not groundbreaking in the women’s division. That’s nonsensical.
Not everyone was successful, but many were. Furthermore, like you said, she was paired with the top guys. Of course the popularity would rub off on her. Plus, she was unique. No one looked like her. This is the same reason Kharma became over in a matter of moments. No, Chyna would never have flopped. Her uniqueness was in her favor.
I hope you understand everything I’ve listed now. I will again state that my original point was distinguishing the work of all the ladies in their respective divisions, not necessarily media/Hollywood. In that aspect, Chyna doesn’t overshadow Trish and Lita. I’m not sure about Sable.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 5th, 2012 at
sometimes I feel like you do not acknowledge where and shift focus to where something is completely irrelevant . ill just leave kharma with what I have already said instead odd repeating .
ot seems like you agree with what I said about the rock and chyna there- ill repeat again the rock only got his own roles aafter he severed ties.
groundbraking in the women’s division … does that really compare to chyna braking more barriers in the business than anyone before her ? the women’s division has always been 2nd rate, especially in the attitude era. chyna bringing attention to herself imo brought attention to women as a whole. quoting trish “chyna cemented the fact we can go out there and do it in the ring ” do u honestly believe that if utter weren’t for chyna they would have hired jazz and victoria (who somewhat made trish). chyna in the women’s division brought them the longest singles match in a long time in lita vs chyna. so , chyna accomplishments in the men’s certainly cross over .
first the quote you took ignored the context of the rest of the statement. so refer back to what I said. I have not changed anything about how I’ve represented that. as far as duplicating her media of.course I don’t except someone to diplicate everything specifically -where did I insinuate that? the quality and quantity of exposure has not been duplicated. that’s why I wrote all of them .
in terms of the fear of women getting to big I do agree but like you said that would have been there
for sable and chyna as well…I think its because they just weren’t as big as stars period. if vince sees money hell take it. as far as now, that’s because they are failing in the way they represented not because they want to bury them in case they get ‘too big’.
in terms of her popularity I totally agree with you… I even said it in my last statement and I never said she was this big celebrity .. she wasn’t . it just kept her somewhat relevant. of course she’s no where near the status of these I never said that.. she just had some status because of her tape and life out of control. again she must have some status if her adult film career is as successful as it is.
very few things in the wrestling world are kept secret and even though trish and chyna have never disclosed salaries… info can be gotten my many different employees who work there. this information has been published on reputable website who have inside knowledge . I have strong belief these are correct or as close as possible.
4 languages and a perfect test score as well as a uni degree in these languages and literature…. how does that not take someone kf superior Intel in terms of comparison to the world and the other diva? of course it does. again trish didn’t finish her schooling – she could have went somewhere else? and she dosent speak 4 languages lr have a perfect test score that I know of . we are talking pinnacle here so chyna on paper is superior. I’ve already written why that that has changed.
you have to be living in bubble if you think that the majority of Asian and African people can speak 4 languages including English. that is the select minority in developed nations . even less so who would have a perfect test score and uni qualification. and again I’m proving dominance in comparison to the other divas . trish may have done math science but did she get a perfect test score ? not that I know of. chyna would have had to have don’t quitem well to got that score ( although in australia you can drop math and science so I don’t know how it works in america … I am assuming that would not be possible ).
I have stated above why her in the mens division should not be seperated. 3x int champ certainly overshadows 7 times women champ on paper if both are female anyway. so in general her wrestling ‘ability ‘ is un matched . but that’s completely different . groundbraking in the womens division is realistically less influential or important than the women’s division which I addressed above.
guess who the less successful. people were in the attitude era? the women. chyna due to her own ability and uniqueness stood out yes, but thats on her… not the fact that anyone would have liked her just because wrestling was hot.
again chyna in the men division realistically overshadows the women’s especially if we are comparing the popularity of all in their prime . regardless that ‘talent’ in of itself has not been duplicated as well as media and Hollywood. in that sense she
is more groundbraking as a whole.
Taylor Reply:
May 5th, 2012 at
It’s not irrelevant at all. You brought up the WWE Championship, because you think that is the only way Kharma can surpass Chyna. I don’t. She can surpass Chyna in other ways like having longer and/or more reigns. Anyways, I think the Kharma talk is finished. Anything past this point is simply opinions. Time will tell.
I’ve already explained my reasoning on the The Rock’s roles and his success while with WWE and on his own. That’s that.
There should be a solid line between the two divisions, especially when discussing Chyna. It doesn’t matter where the division stood or where it stands now. The point is she was not groundbreaking as far as wrestling women went. And no, she did not bring attention to women. She brought attention only to herself. If ever there was a discussion about Chyna, no one would bring up points on how other women benefited from her success. In fact, she thought the other women were below her and this has been documented time and time again. She’s known for her interactions with men. If her run in the men’s division never occurred, the exposure and attention she embraced would never have been.
By writing, “I am arguing the accolade of exposure as a whole, as well as her in the mens division, and the best selling playboy ( at least in comparison). some of the accomplishments within those accolades are accolades themselves like for instance, Whos Line, bestt selling book, best selling fitness video purely because they have not been done by any other female. as a whole, no other female has duplicated that,” certainly implies that you’re trying to point out her entire lineup was not duplicated. While this is true, it’s not the best argument to make, because not everything Chyna did will be duplicated; similarly, not everything Trish and Lita did will be duplicated.
I don’t personally think that mentality would have been there for Sable and Chyna, because they were the first real success stories as far as women went. I agree that Vince McMahon will take money if he sees it; however, also understand that he doesn’t see everything. Some of his decisions are made through the information others give him. This type of lobbying gives great power to those who have his ear.
I agreed in one of my previous posts that she still has a following, but I listed that most of her following is still from wrestling. I guess her fans really do want to see her in porn. (Side note: I hope you didn’t purchase her movie(s).)
As far as “the salary list,” I’ve seen the numbers on a few sites, but none that have any prestige, unless the reputable sites list salaries under their paid-membership section, which I wouldn’t have access to then.
Chyna does not have multiple degrees. She has one degree in Spanish Literature. Once again, you are overrating her. Let’s be honest here: acquiring a language degree is not strenuous. Language degrees are highly sought after for this reason, although not the only reason. Trish could have went somewhere else? You ask this like like it’s an easy task to accomplish. Imagine if your professors went on strike while you were a senior in college. Where could she have gone? What college accepts transfers from seniors who are a few months shy of graduating? Not any reputable college that’s for sure. I’ve been searching for any news regarding Chyna’s perfect test scores and can’t seem to come up with any results. Therefore, I’ve come to a decision that this is untrue. Everything from where she went to college to how many languages (and which ones) she speaks is listed. No source confirms her test scores, not even Chyna. I’m sure she would have included that in her book with her 170 IQ right? You’re going to have to provide more proof. Simply stating that the WWE promoted that “accomplishment” early on doesn’t suffice. The WWE states a lot of information, true and sometimes untrue, when trying to build up their wrestlers. And as far as standardized tests go, the American and Australian educational systems are very different. And I’m assuming the Canadian educational system (in Trish’s case) is somewhat different too. These tests are probably different in regards to what they test for and the level of difficulty.
You can’t compare her accomplishments in the men’s division to Trish’s in the women’s division, because Trish never entered Chyna’s territory. Again, no other women looked like Chyna, so none of them would have entered. How realistic would it look? I don’t really care about the influence. As I stated, she never accomplished all there was to in the women’s division. So in that aspect, she doesn’t overshadow Trish or Lita. I’ve made that point since the beginning.
How many women were in wrestling during the actual Attitude Era (late 90s)? Sable, Chyna, Sunny, and Terri? I don’t know about Terri, but the other three were huge (Sunny to a lesser extent). I never said she was popular only because wrestling was huge then. Look at Kharma, she’s already over for the same reason Chyna was: her unique look. However, if she debuted during the Attitude Era, she definitely would have been more popular, which is a luxury Chyna had.
When other women haven’t had the opportunities she had (e.g., wrestling men, having a presence in the men’s division), you can’t vehemently state that she was more groundbreaking. You have to look at where all the women were on an equal playing field: the women’s division and Hollywood. Trish and Lita were more groundbreaking in the women’s division while Chyna was more groundbreaking in media/Hollywood.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 6th, 2012 at
omg i said kharma can surpass in terms of reigns or whatever, but it wont mean as much. sigh.
the rock —- bleh. ill stand by what i said.
so you are not reading what i am writing?”It doesn’t matter where the division stood or where it stands now.” are you crazy? thats how you measure something being groundbraking -if it imroves and it did with chyna. people always talk about how chyna chaged the role of women to being muscular and wreslter TRISH STRATUS EVEN SAID THIS. her with the mens division certainly rubbed off.
these accolades as whole have not been duplicated because they certianly surpass the accomplihemtns of trish and lita, thats why she, in terms of on paper, is superior the entire reaosning behind the statement.
the mentality was certianly there- always has been. example, madusa and sunny who basically trashed his product and him personally by leaving and being incredibly hard to work with. as far not seeing something thats due to how they represent them which is also due to other people like you said — not because of the fear they wil get too big.
She does still have a following — and personally i dont want her in porn. no i have not bought her films haha, but a lot of people have….lol
ive seen these numbers on pwtorch, pw insider from people who actually worked with the company and did pay rolls. They seem quite accurate. i dont know if they still exsit, i just remember those numbers.
That was a phrasing mistake — i know she only has one degree. Her language knowledge is very well documented and i gave sources on where she speaks it, and she did study them in college (probably as electives i am presuming). In australia tranferring to another uni is very simple, but we do have many reputable universites in a smaller area where i guess that would be different over there. but transferring is not that difficult – in fact all units you complete are kept on record and transfer the the corrspeonding degree including those from interntional universities. I myself have done this. if they have space even for the 6 months, theyll take it. money is money regardless if you are not thier for long. besides when you graduate, in terms of here, all the universities you atteneded are listed as to not give full credit to or not enough to the other.
you wont find school test results because they are hardly documented, in fact its hard to find them on any person. thats why its so perelous to lie about it because if someone does go to the extent of finding out the exact scores, your repuataion is thrown out the window if its wrong. then again, she did state she had an iq of 170 which i very much doubt, but thats easy to manipulate as anyone can do it. her school scores are in her book yes. If you listen to her speak in a conversion before her life spun out of control, you can tell she is very intelligent. also the fact the wwf plugged it is quite reputable. why would they state how smart she was when she was a bodyguard? it wouldnt be nessessary if it werent true, its like completely opposite of her character.
Trish never enetered Chynas territory because yes she didnt look the part. But some have, jazz, victoria, nicole bass, beth pehniox, especially the last two could have looked legitemate. you dont care about her influence? right ok because the womens division reigns supreme right? come on. in am womens wreslitng fan and i can admit this. her accomplishements were incredibly influential on divas that would follow and the direction of womens wreslting. sable and chyna created the demand for people like trish and lita. just because she didnt enter the womens division doesnt really matter. Actually there were many women in the attitude era, clearly you didnt follow it. Ivory, Jacqueline, The Kat, Luna, Tori, Debra (also pretty over) etc. but these fell flat compared to the likes of Sable and Chyna. kharma has gotten over, yes. But lets she if he evolves, looks only go so far. Chyna got really over because of her mainstream presence, the fact she was in the mens division and her look. then later playboy, ‘looks’ etc etc. Sure she had the luxry, but she had the talent, the push and passion as well.
The whole reaosn chyna is gorundbraking is because of her in the mens divsion and hollywood so why would you take that away from her? Just because trish and lita werent in it doesnt mean you can ignore it. besides, ive already proven how her in the mens division complimented the women. i am not argeing the fact she beat trish/litas accomplishments in the womens division, but her accomplishements in the mens division are much more influential and groundbraking, and imo overshadow them in comparison, plus her accomplishments in hollywood. This makes her more groundbraking as a whole. I think we have excersied this arguement enough and is blowing out of proportion. you believe trish was more groundbraking (since you barely reference the other 2) and i believe chyna was. i guess we can just leave as that.
Taylor Reply:
May 6th, 2012 at
Once again, it won’t mean as much to you! It means a great deal. If the Women’s Championship were still around and a Diva beat Trish’s record, it would be huge! If anyone beats Ric Flair’s record it will be huge.
You must be crazy if you think the women’s division improved with Chyna. She left before anything major occurred. It was Trish Stratus and the women who worked with her that elevated that division while Lita was injured. Clearly Chyna’s accomplishments are minimal in the women’s division like Trish’s are in the men’s division. There were plenty of women before Chyna that were muscular and could wrestle.
I already stated her accomplishments in Hollywood surpass that of Trish and Lita. How times do I need to write that? When Chyna was in her prime, the WWE was huge. When Trish and Lita reached their primes (mid 2000s?), the WWE wasn’t as big. So of course those two wouldn’t duplicate Chyna’s lineup. I hope this is the last time I need to state that…
Again, Sable and Chyna were the first real success stories. The WWE definitely didn’t want a repeat of Sable. As far as Chyna, her personal problems are most likely what created the rifts not her as a person; however, I do recall her once stating that Triple H was starting to get jealous, which doesn’t surprise me at all.
Transferring as a senior is practically impossible in the United States. You can only transfer your second year (some colleges allow third year transfers, but such transfers are very rare). I’m assuming the Canadian system is more similar to the American system. Therefore, it makes sense why she couldn’t continue. She either had to wait until the strike was over or find something temporary, which obviously turned into something permanent.
A perfect score is a great accomplishment. This would definitely be documented, because it only benefits the person in question. Obviously, you can’t trust what Chyna says in our situation. We’re debating her accomplishments; therefore, you shouldn’t cite her as a primary source as she could easily be exaggerating. For example, her claim about Playboy. The WWE would state anything to build up a wrestler’s character. Obviously they wanted to get across the point that she wasn’t stupid. Low education is a stereotype of bodyguards for sure.
Jazz and Victoria never wrestled men in WWE? How did they enter her territory? As far as Nicole Bass, she was not easy on the eyes by any means. Although I’ve stated that Chyna is probably not considered as physically attractive as Trish, Sable, and Lita, she definitely wasn’t ugly. She had the necessary look, but still had that feminine aspect. Plus, she actually looked natural; Nicole Bass did not. She looked like a freak. It’s silly to compare Chyna and Beth Phoenix.
The Women’s Division as a whole during Trish’s time definitely had more recognizable talent then the men’s division. Every woman had a character and most fans — casual or avid — knew their names. Countless men came and went. After the main-event wrestlers, the women were the top stars. If I recall from what others have said, Jackie drew lots of heat during her feud with Sable? Ivory was a lost cause until her RTC gimmick.
I don’t think Kharma will enter Hollywood (or pose for Playboy), but she has some chance of entering the men’s division. They let her slam Dolph Ziggler? I just don’t want to speculate on that. All I will say is that the potential is there.
How can you not ignore that aspect? It isn’t fair to compare Chyna’s accomplishments in the men’s division to Trish’s and Lita’s in the women’s division. I will still stand by what I said: Trish, Lita, and Sable were more groundbreaking in the women’s division. I, unlike you, don’t find it necessary to blur the boundaries of the divisions. It’s an unfair comparison. Chyna gets Hollywood obviously. I try my best to incorporate the other two, but I don’t really know much about either. Anyways, this is where we leave it then, unless you reply…
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 7th, 2012 at
Guess i am repsonding lol. I believe Kharma will be important dont get me wrong, but when someone has already accomplished so much, by default, it already overshadows that.However it has been some time, so perhaps it will matter. In terms of title reigns, the only one that will really matter, imo, is if she wins the wwe title (4 time intercont champ wont matter as much since many men have beaten that, and her other accomplishments like #1 contender, royal rumble, i dont think will recieve as much a reaction)
Chyna certainly did help. again, would jazz have been hired? doubtful. Chyna was the reason victoria got over. These two really made trish while lita was injured. Again, The womens division was in the pits in the attitude era, Chyna brought a huge amount of legitimacy and populatirty and the longest womens match in chyna vs lits since Madusa. Imo, her accomplishements in the mens division really did highlight on the female as a whole. again, even Trish said this.
As far as not duplicating her hollywood success, i was proving they didnt in quantity and quality. But Lita, imo had her prime in 2000 (in terms of popularity) and did not reach the media sucess of chyna. Trish was incredibly green at that time, so by default no. so context is not the only factor here. I addrssed this ” You do realise that Lita and Trish were wrelsting in 2000 right? Lita was HUGELY over in that time, on par with Chyna. Trish at that time was just another blond bombshell – which she would later change. Sable got over in a matter of a few months, so lita and trish could (and lita did) have, but they just didnt reach that upper pinnacle as far exposure like sable and Chyna did. So i wouldnt say being in the industry when it was red hot is really justified, considering they all were in it at the time. Trish did not reach her pinaccle until after not because she wasnt in the wreslting industry when it was red hot, because she was. Lita certainly did.” Thats as far as i can express that piont.
Triple H, MANY have stated, even kevin kelly recently, said that Triple H’s actions sent chynas career in a downward spiral. Thats gotta cause some big problems. As far as Chyna getting jealous, of who exactly? Them? oh wait you mean Triple H getting jealous of her? haha, i have actually never heard that… what do you mean by that exactly?
Transferring is a whole nother arguement- i personally just cant believe that if she REALLY didnt want to get her education, she wouldnt have. And from what i know, it was not a doctors degree rather a sceince degree.
I am really trying to find where they plugged her perfect or near perfect score.i dont get why on earth they would need to use that to get her over, or even herself using it (which she only started saying when she was already incredibly over). I understand in terms of arguements sake, but it would be baffling to me if it werent true – and it didnt help her get over, it was used more of a trivial fact. if they wanted to use it to get her over, they would have said it time and time again. also her playboy accomplishments have been well docusmented. Her 2nd issue which she had no wwe backing was #5 top selling issue. (i can link, its really annoying) apparently it sold over 4 million copies. Now, how much do you think her 1st sold with the backing? it would have been at last top 3. anyway, that unprovable.
No no i meant jazz and victoria could have looked believeable, certianly nicole bass. Nicole bass as a freak is not justified – she didnt have the talent, thats why, remeber chyna was lobbyed as a man, a freak, transexual, throughout her entire career, and some people to this day still say it. I dont believe she was ugly at all in her last couple of years, she was more of one of those things that was a spectacle – you werent sure whether you wanted to look, but you are mesmerized and compelled to watch. But again, shaniqua could have looked beleiveable etc etc
More recognisable? yes because there was less and they were featured – but that doesnt make them better – they never have been. “her accomplishements were incredibly influential on divas that would follow and the direction of womens wreslting. sable and chyna created the demand for people like trish and lita.” Jackie only drew heat from the fact sable was so over. None of the others had any real backing – ivory got her foothold in RTC yes. And who really made her stand out with that gimmick? Chyna.
Mens divsision? Certinaly has a chance.
I think its perfectly fair if we are repesrenting groundbraking as a whole, which chyna was like i said above – plus they did influence womens wreslitng in the industry – which i have said above.”her accomplishements in the mens division are much more influential and groundbraking, and imo overshadow them in comparison, plus her accomplishments in hollywood. This makes her more groundbraking as a whole.”
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 7th, 2012 at
Chyna was the reason victoria got a job*
she REALLY did want to get her education, she would have. **
Taylor Reply:
May 8th, 2012 at
I’m not surprised. Honestly, that’s just your opinion. And I feel because you’re a huge fan of Chyna, you wouldn’t get as excited by Kharma surpassing/refining her career highlights. I would feel the same as you if I was in your position, but instead of Chyna it were Trish.
I’m sticking to my guns: Chyna did not elevate the women. She may have brought attention to the division when she was involved in it, but she did nothing to actually help it (nor did she want to) when she was solely in the men’s division. Jazz was already in wrestling; I’m sure she would have been hired through the help of Paul Heyman. Victoria has already stated that Chyna helped her get into the business.
I already explained why Trish didn’t get over as quickly as Sable did. Lita, again, I’m not sure about. I honestly don’t know too much about her. When I started watching, she was injured. So I had no idea who she was when she returned to help Trish fight off Molly and Gail.
In terms of jealousy, I stated that Triple H was getting jealous of Chyna’s success. I think she said in an interview that he didn’t like that she posed for Playboy or actually went and was given a spread in the magazine. He seems like the type of person who is really insecure. And if he’s “girlfriend” of all people was outshining him, then I’m sure he would have hated it.
She was starting to apply to medical school when her school’s professors went on strike. And it’s difficult to transfer when you’re so close to finishing school. She stated that she had to wait it out. Instead of just waiting, she was asked to do fitness modeling. Her career took off from there and school wasn’t necessary anymore.
I just don’t know with her test scores. Like I said, perfect scores would be documented. An accomplishment like that would never hurt Chyna. But as far as intelligence, there are multiple forms. Scholastic intelligence is just one. I’m sure her issues sold well, but there are just so many more famous women that posed for the magazine. Plus, the circulation for the magazine was much higher in the 70s. It was like seven million per issue not including the celebrity status of the cover-girl.
Jazz and Victoria wouldn’t look as believable as Chyna. Nicole Bass? Yes. I just can’t see Nicole Bass successful though. She was just blah. Chyna at least had the charisma and fan connection. That’s something that you just have or don’t, in my opinion. Plus, the WWE had faith in Chyna. And they apparently have faith in Kharma. So you never know.
I fully think the women of Trish’s era were more famous than the men sans the main-event wrestlers. They were an important aspect of the show. I don’t know too much about Ivory’s gimmick with Chyna, but from what I’ve heard, Chyna basically squashed Ivory. How does that make Ivory look good?
I just can ignore the aspect that Trish and Lita were never allowed to wrestle men. If you can ignore that part than you are entitled to that. But I can’t. So I’m still sticking with my opinion that Trish and Lita were more groundbreaking than Chyna in the women’s division. As far as a whole, I’d say all four women were equals with what they helped create as I stated to the poster I originally replied to.
_Bryan_ Reply:
May 8th, 2012 at
Perhaps my opinion my be clouded but just by defualt, it think it wont matter as much, but thats just what i believe if i was a casual/majority fan. Like for example, The rock’s record being taken over as the most amount of wwe title reigns….it didnt really matter, at the end of the day its just a number, regardless if the person was a better wrestler or w/e.
Chyna has always stated that she wanted to help the women in the company. She just perhaps did not like the type of women being represented – she, imo, favoured people like lita, victoria etc, thats why it comes across like she believes the women were beneath (which, realisistically was true, but i dont think that was her intnewtion. i Believe she just wanted to improve upon it). Imo, she drastically helped and improved it. Like i Said the wwe and trish stratus, lita, victoria have stated this. You are entitled to your opinion, but ive expressed that piont as much as a can.
Again both women had the opportunity, but trish only shined years later when wreslting was less of a mainstreama activity and lita was not the hollywood type (at least, thats what she comes across as, otherwise she just wasnt desired). That is why they did not succeed in the height of the wresling business-not because they werent there, they were.
I have heard her say that, but i dont think she insinuated jealousy here. He just hated her in the magazine. He (according to her) in her shoots would get really annoyed and displeased with her and the crew. He dislikes playboy girls for some reason. Thats when the relationship broke away, and really issues stemmed from there. She was single from December 2000 (thats what she said in an article) And guess where she was put? the womens division. Not sounding like thats a bad thing, but her entire career was with the men, and thats bound to make you uncomfertable. She was barely televised – and thats when she really tried to persue hollywood, and thats when her WWF career became sticky (with vince etc).
So her degree was somewhat of a transfer into medical school? i dont really know about her education. But you are right there are many types of inteligence. And to me, them putting her over for it makes it relevant. If trish or lita or sable were so smart why didnt they use it? As far as perfect scores i remeber the number vaguely that they said, it was alike 99.97 or 99.75, i cant remeber.. would that be right? I am assuming that is not a perfect score, but it would be prety darn close to if its 100 haha. The circulation of the magazine was not 7 million per issue. If chynas was number 5 with over 4 million copies, then how exactly could she beat all the supposed 7 million issues throughout the 70′s? its just not possible. Other sources which say that the 70′s copy that was the highest selling (7.4 million) was covered by a really famous model at the time, plus the general success of the industry at that time.
again Shaniqua? there are plenty of women who had the look of credibility they just didnt have chynas charmisma or talent or backing. Kharma? certainly has many of those if not all, dont get me wrong i am excitied we will just have to wait and see.
again i wgree that they were more noticable but they have never ever been booked as better than the males. Chyna was put into a major storyline with ivory that made her shine. yes she was squashed, of course she would be. creative backed themselves into a corner when putting her with ivory because Chyna was a 3x interonct champ. if ivory could beat or even mount good amount of offense, how does that make the guys look? her ‘injury’ can only be believed in-so-far. Ivory really shined in terms of the mic when chyna wasnt on tv, her promos were fantastic and the storyline was built up well leading into wresltemania. This was probably the height of her career in terms of storyline and time. thats how it made her look good.
Your original statement said she was not more groundbraking, only in the mens division. but that was the whole piont of chyna in the first place. Thats like taking away litas high flying appeal and only documenting her work that was not that. and i have dicussed why her acheivements beneifted the women in the company – which i get you dont want to believe. As a whole no one reached chynas media success and her in the mens division has not been even close to being seen again (kharma perhaps). Thats why she is more successful and more groundbraking in terms of the bigger star. But we are never going to budge, so lets just call a spade a spade and be done with this.
Taylor Reply:
May 9th, 2012 at
If it happened after The Rock left WWE and broke off ties, then I can understand why the WWE didn’t make a huge deal out of it. The type of emotion has to be created by the WWE first. If they make it seem like Kharma wins more titles/reigns than Chyna, hypothetically of course, then it will matter. If they ignore it, then it won’t considering the new viewers probably don’t know who Chyna is.
As far as Chyna elevating the women’s division, we’ll just leave it at our opinions.
In Trish’s case, it doesn’t help when you’re stuck being the useless valet with only assets to show off. Not to mention it has been done before, and people weren’t as excited for it because they had already seen it in Sunny, Sable, and Terri/Marlena.
No, Trish was applying to medical schools, but her professors went on strike before she could earn her baccalaureate degree. Obviously no professional school in the United States and Canada would accept a student without such degree. Those numbers are not right in regards to the SAT (out of 1600 during Chyna’s time; now out of 2400) and ACT (out of 36). So I don’t exactly know what tests they must be referring to. And they didn’t need to plug Trish’s intelligence. She wasn’t a bodyguard. Like I said, most bodyguards have low education attached to them; that is something they obviously didn’t want attached to Chyna. And they always plugged Trish as a “devious witch” or something along the lines of that. Plus, her role was just to look nice at first.
Playboy‘s circulation was seven million per issue. I have proof: According to Building Brand Value the Playboy Way, a book by Susan Gunelius, “…Playboy was peaking with magazine circulation at over 7 million copies per month (responsible for half of the company’s 1970 revenue of $132 million and most of the company’s net income of $9.2 million)…” This is by far the most credible source listed in our arguments thus far. Gunelius had to have researched this before writing her book. Therefore, you need to check the credibility of whatever source is claiming that Chyna’s total was over four million.
After Chyna’s departure, I don’t think the WWE was going to allow any women the opportunity to enter the men’s division. Maybe now that time has passed, they will be more allowing. Nevertheless, I agree that Chyna had more charisma and was better looking than most of the women you listed that could wrestle the men.
My original statement was: “was groundbreaking in the men’s division. The other three women were groundbreaking in the women’s division. No one woman was more important than the other three.” And apologies on my part. That was in reply to you not the original poster. I find what I said to be very true. It’s not that I don’t want to believe it; it’s that I don’t agree with you. There’s a difference. I have absolutely no problems admitting Chyna’s strengths. I have nothing against her. Like I said, as far as women went, she wasn’t as groundbreaking. I see all four women on the same playing field.
You wanted to reply, lol. It could have ended a few posts ago. Like I said, if you reply, I’ll be inclined to reply. Otherwise, we can just leave it.
at
If only if Kharma was around in these days this would have been a perfect time for her debut could you imagine when Chyna made that announcement Kharma music came on and she came out
at
Trish always knew how to sell a beat down.
As for Chyna, I remember when she won the IC title, more because she was a chick winning a man’s title then because she was bad ass in the ring. When I watch her old matches, I’m like “wow, she was so…meh.”
Jhonmarco Reply:
April 30th, 2012 at
Agreed. Take away the “woman wrestling a man” concept & you had nothing there.
at
I LOVED Chyna and Lita as a tag team back then when they were feuding with ivory and molly. :)
Trish was totally new to wrestling and was mainly taking only bumps while having punchs and kicks as her offence back then.
Very sad that Chyna destroyed her career after the break up with Triple HHH in which she fell into depressions and started to drink too much. :(
If they have stood together we would had definately still being able to enjoy her either within the WWE or TNA and she still would be more over than any other Diva ever was.
at
It’s funny how the proceeding champion right after Chyna, was that very same woman she squashed. I wonder how the division would have been if Chyna faced Trish at her prime. Gurrrl would not be complaining about no competition!
Kessuki Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
and if chyna had stayed on another few years she would have some real badass competition in Jazz.
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This also showed how tough and not afraid Trish was to take a beat down even with out at the time being a full time wrestler. Trish can take a bump love her.
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I cannot believe this was 11 years ago. Seems like yesterday. I miss these days of wrestling.
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I know this match was meant to start the Chyna vs. Lita feud, but the complete squash of Trish was so weird. This match was at the top of the hour, was promoted at the beginning of the show, and there was a segment of Trish in Commissioner William Regal’s office in which he told her that if she beat Chyna, she would receive a title shot. Then again, Chyna was reluctant to give offense to any women and never liked Trish.
And yes, the Chyna/Lita match at Judgment Day was *good*, but it could have been so much better. I look forward to that discussion next month.
norisclouds Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
It wasn’t weird. Trish was a joke of a wrestler at the time who was treated like a vamp blond who couldn’t seriously put up a fight in the ring but was hot to look at. She was not considered a serious competitor or challenger to any of the women. That’s why Lita was always squashing her in matches unless someone interfered. Even Molly, the better wrestler than Lita, was considered a jobber for Lita until about 2002.
at
Whatever. Complain about Chyna, forget what a magnificent spectacle that was at the time and ignore the crowd clamoring for her to throw the women around like ragdolls. Ignore Chyna’s crowd reaction completely…
Kessuki Reply:
May 2nd, 2012 at
i adored chyna and still do. she will always be in my top 3 divas because of the star attraction she was. her pop was extraordinary for a woman.