The WWE has decided to axe a proposed DVD release for the Divas, according to a report from WWEDVDNews.com.
The DVD, tentatively titled “Top 20 Divas Countdown”, first reported on last September, has now been removed from the list of upcoming releases and has been replaced by a Mid South Wrestling collection.
Thoughts: It may only seem like a small issue, but I’m disappointed that WWE has pulled the plug on this project. There is definitely a market for Divas memorabilia and merchandise yet it seems that WWE doesn’t think that it is worth pursuing, which is a real shame.
133 Comments
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awwww super dissapointed in this, i was actually really really looking forward to this and seeing what they had :(
but really not reall surprising LOL, divas are really WWE strong part
SherriShepherdWWE Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
i meant to say, not there strong part LMAO, thats embarrassing lol
Getdownwithachola Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Wren’t you that one lady who came to SmackDown in 2008 and hooked up with MVP???
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Sherri are you drunk lol. your post is a hot mess! Lol
Well this sucks, but id rather not have them do this DVD if all they’re going to do is make Trish Stratus number 1 again. It feels so forced and I’m not about to entertain this charade and continue to support a “Trish is our savior” campaign. I think she’s HOF worthy no doubt, but why do a list when we know who’s butt they’re going to kiss as number 1? I’m sorry, but I would rather take a history of the Women’s Championship DVD than another rigged list.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Can you make up your mind if you hate her or not? Tired of your bipolar act where you praise or bash people depending on your mood and how they are compared to Lita. Be consistent.
Ace Of Base Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that one can support and admire a woman wrestler without putting her first in every list? Yes believe it or not, I don’t think Lita was the best at everything. At the same time, I don’t believe she was the absolute worst is other areas as some of you love to exaggerate. As for Trish, I’ve said it a million times, I adore the woman. She is special and a hard worker in anything she does. Those are qualities that make her a better human being more than anything. She is very inspirational. You’d be a fool to deny that. With that said, just like Lita, I don’t think Trish was the greatest of all time in everything. It does not feel genuine as a fan and I beg WWE to give other women not named Trish or Lita some love.
Please back off now.
jonboi Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
@AJFAN83 just because he bashed trish there doesn’t mean he hates her he just knows what the wwe are like when it comes to trish!!! I mean I love lita and trish there BOTH the reason I retuned back into wwf but I also hate the fact the wwe over shadow not only lita but a lot of better talent than trish I mean think of it from amys point always being in your bestows shadow plying second fiddle being overlooked even though the fans see them as equal think what that would do to a persons confidence.
jonboi Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
@aceofbase I tots agree with you about the trish ass kissing thing she’s great but as the polls from the people show trish has never came 1st in a lot of things but if wwe did the same poll then wwe would fix it for trish to win just like they did with the diva of the decade it was lita torrie stacy THEN trish but wwe fixed it so trish won that was BS!!! Rant over! But yes I’d rather see a top 20 womans matches or championship matches but wwe fcuk us over again!!! Ass holes lol
K2Evefan Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
How would it be a rigged list if trish was #1? Trish is without a doubt the greatest diva of all time if you go by her career achievements. Yes #1 is very predictable but that doesnt make it rigged.
Getdownwithachola Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Damn that profile picture!
#sassyness #I<3newyork
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Wow.I wish we could have one thing for the divas just for the divas! I was really looking forward to seeing this . Man I wish they would do a all diva internet paper view with current divas ,past divas , and fcw divas. or it can go straight to DVD if they wanna be lazy I wouldn’t care either way.
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This is no time to put out a divas dvd. The division is at its lowest ever!!! People will look at it as a damn joke because they dont want to see the mess they constantly tune into on a weekly basis. Thats the truth. No ones gonna buy it bc if the divas today are examples of what the divas dvd will be like its gonna flop. Dont get me wrong. I love the wwe and the divas. Im just being blunt. Wait until the division is considered a decent draw and attraction before releasing something like that. Smart decision.
iLUVValets Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
I wholeheartedly agree. At this point, I don’t even think another divas search will hurt. Which is pretty sad
Jcott3 Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
You’re absolutely right on all counts except one – the lowest point of the Divas was in the spring/summer 2005. WWE fired Jazz, Nidia, Gail Kim and Jacqueline in 2004, along with turning Ivory into a broadcaster, and were replaced by the girls from the 2004 Diva Search.
Then in 2005, they hit rock bottom when three things happened: 1) Lita tore her ACL, killing the Trish vs. Lita program WWE had planned to carry them into WrestleMania and forcing them to go with a green-as-grass Christy Hemme. Then the Lita-Edge-Matt love triangle became public knowledge, prompting WWE to use her as Edge’s valet, keeping her out of the ring.
2) Molly Holly quit. Molly was the one who usually worked with the new girls to “show them the ropes”. Even though her stock in WWE had dropped to negative numbers (thank you, whoever thought it was a good idea to push Stacy Keibler as a wrestler), she was still a good hand in the ring who could spoon-feed the new girls WWE had hired and make them look halfway decent.
3) Trish Stratus herniated a disc in her back, putting her on the shelf for four months. It almost wound up being longer if not permanent, as there was talk of her having to have surgery (back surgery is VERY risky and a patient can actually get worse instead of better).
With them gone, that left WWE with a grand total of ONE woman who could actually wrestle: Victoria – and she wound up being “the other one” in Vince’s Devils with Torrie and Candice.
With the roster so depleted, they had another Diva Search. The 2005 Diva Search got written up in WrestleCrap and gave us the lovely but untalented Ashley Massaro.
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Oh well. It’s not like the sales for it would have been high or anything.
Casual fans(the ones that make up the majority of the audience),don’t care about the divas.
at
It is such a damn shame. I really wanted this DVD, I’ve collected every single one since ’01. I really hope they make this, even if it’s only a online limited edition dvd
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Smart Move, because of the state the division is in. It’s just a bunch of washed up, dead weight. with the exception of A.J, Kaitlyn & Layla
Jillfan1 Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Nattie?
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:( upsetting.
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That sucks :(
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What a shock!
Honestly, though, I wasn’t too excited for this DVD to begin with. We all know Trish would be #1 (not saying she shouldn’t be, but still) and I don’t trust WWE to rank the Divas honestly. It would be more about who is most popular now rather than who made the biggest impact. For example, Stacy never really did all that much in her time as a Diva, but she’d be right near the top because she’s famous now. Plus, women like Mickie and Tara wouldn’t be listed because they work for TNA now.
Still, any little bit of recognition is good for the Divas, so it sucks to see that they won’t get this.
Blacklighter05 Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Not true about the Mickie and Tara part. They’ve been featured on other lists since they’ve started with TNA.
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Biggest shocker ever! Okay, not really. This is smart and probably good for the divas. The divas have been degraded for so long that a retrospective on their “greatness” would seem incredibly forced at this point. Plus the WWE has to know that this thing wouldn’t sell many copies. The divas, as a whole or individually, haven’t made the company a dime since they stopped doing Playboy and the photoshoot DVDs/magazines.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Smart? Because a Mid South Wrestling collection DVD is going to sell more copies? No body wants to pay to watch the history of an ancient, defunct wrestling promotion. Let it rest it piece for God’s sake.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Nobody*
peace**
Ace Of Base Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
I strongly agree with Ms. Devereux, I don’t want to know about Mid South…I would’ve wanted an insider look into the divas past and present. *Salivates*
Wolverine Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Sorry but more people care about mid south than the Divas
Mikas Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Nobody? Mid South wasnt just some indy, it was one of the main competitors of WWF. There are plenty of people who want to see those old matches for nostalgia reasons. A lot of that footage was unavailable for decades. Its an important part of wrestling history, and it will easily outsell any diva dvd.
Jcott3 Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Mid-South wrestling had a huge history. It was Bill Watts’ territory pre-UWF and a lot of WWF greats worked there. A Mid-South DVD probably won’t interest newer fans who came aboard during the Attitude Era, but older fans are going to eat it up. It will do about the same as the AWA and World Class DVD’s did.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
It’s ancient and defunct. It should stay that way. And I disagree. We’ll see what’s what when/if they report numbers.
Wolverine Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Am sure it would sell more copies
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
How many 60-year-old wrestling fans are there?
theprincedann Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
I would much rather see the MidSouth dvd, over the Trish Stratus plus 19 DVD.
Its heritage. :)
ajfan83 Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Mid South will sell more than a Diva retrospective. Want to know why? Because a lot of big stars worked in the Mid South company. You people do realize that WWE isn’t going to focus on the entire history of the company, right? They are just going to do a brief overview and then focus on the guys that want on to greater fame.
And I wasn’t even trying to compare the two DVD sets anyway. I didn’t even mention Mid South in my original comment. Just talking about how most people don’t care enough about the divas to buy a set celebrating their history. The company has told everyone the division is a joke for years now. So a set would be foolish.
theprincedann Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
ajfan Is right.
The WWE doesn’t care about the division, and sees it as a joke. Michael Cole laughing through the matches, making fun of the Divas for the past few years.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
I’m not much of a wrestling fan. I watch for the Divas every now and then, so I’ll openly admit that this is the first time I’ve heard of Mid South.
Aside from that, I have to ask again: How many 60-year-old wrestling fans are there? I have a hard time believing being that old, you’d still follow wrestling.
k2evecrew Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
I think neither DVDs would’ve sold well , most fans today are under the age of 50 & probably really don’t care to much for mid south or heard about it that . And most fans today care more about wrestlers from the attitude era or the current ones today
ajfan83 Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
I think there are more old school fans than you think. WWE has done sets on other old companies so there must be enough interest to keep releasing them. Also, a Mid South set probably requires very little work. There might not even be a documentary, just matches.
I just don’t think there’s a big market for a diva history set, or one about their greatest matches or anything. I don’t even think the Trish and Lita sets back in the day sold a ton of copies, which is why WWE has never done a followup. The best selling diva DVDs were always the photo shoot ones, where they’d all go to some island or whatever. And that’s no longer possible because of PG and the fact that the internet has made those type of tapes redundant.
If the WWE could get people in to the divas and womens wrestling than they could do a set like this down the road, maybe. But with the current shape it’s in? It would be a disaster. Why make the division look even worse by releasing something that will probably be one of the lowest selling DVDs ever put out by WWE?
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Disappointed mainly because I was really interested in seeing if it would just a one disc set with just the list or if they would make it two or three disc with matches.
at
What is wrong with the rightful woman being number one? It’s a DIVAS DVD. As far as DIVAS go, Trish is number one. This pattern of hating on the top girls really needs to stop. It was Kelly before, now it’s AJ. You people really do need to step away from the keyboard for a few days. It’s unhealthy.
Ace Of Base Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Number 1 is subjective dear. They’re all opinions and not facts, that’s the first thing you need to understand. Secondly, a lot of us feel that other women could be number 1 if they’re granted the same opportunities and given the same number of pushes. I’m sorry, but no crowns have been given here darling. Trish is not number 1, Kelly was number 1 at smiling and screaming during a headscissors, but not at the actual wrestling aspect. We will forever disagree.
Also, for the record – I use my phone a lot to post here. I quite healthy. I just got back from the gym 20 m ago actually, I have 4 A’s so far in college, and I’m going to work in a few minutes. I love reading what the Diva Dirt fans have to say. Let’s not get our panties in a bunch, it is all food for thought anyway. Blessings to you darling.
Ace Of Base Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
I’m quite healthy is what I meant to say. :-)
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Please don’t address me as dear, darling, sweetie, etc. My username is available for you to reference.
1. It’s really not subjective when no one else is as successful as she was. It’s a FACT that she was more successful. That’s the first thing you need to understand.
2. That’s great. That doesn’t change the fact that she had a better career. Why? She was the most well-rounded and had great business savvy.
3. Thanks for going out of your way to explain your life to me. My words must have bothered you.
theprincedann Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
@Ace
Your language is really, overly patronizing.
Ace Of Base Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
I apologize if it seems that way Prince, some people are just ignorant that it provokes me to lash out at them and their ignorant views.
I adress people nicely enough though, and I’m sorry, but until it is proven. They’re fair game opinions, which I can respect. But Ms. Deverux is telling them as facts, which is a load of horse manure if you ask me. Trish doesn’t always come out as number 1 in real fan polls. That’s a good indicator that the stuff WWE might throw at us isn’t always accurate or true at all. Case closed.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Cut the shade. It’s not cute. Calling someone else ignorant. The irony there!
Have I incorrectly stated anything? Is there any other DIVA who is more successful than Trish Stratus? Would you like to name one? Stating that Lita was slightly more popular throughout her career doesn’t mean she was more successful. I stated a fact. Fan polls don’t always ask who the most successful Diva was.
My poor brain cells. :’(
K2Evefan Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Im pretty sure when devereux says #1 he is talking about the top diva. That doesnt mean the best wrestler but the ones that have had bigger careers. While yes the most popular girls get more pushes they take the ball and run with it and if the crowd loves it of course the wwe is going to push them. The dvd was titled “top 20 technical divas” its “the top 20 divas” which of course could only have trish as #1 she was 7 time champion fact. She was involved in some of the most memorable diva fueds in history fact. She main evented raw fact. She was on more magazine covers than anyone else in the company fact. Should i keep going or is that enough facts for you? Show me the facts where anyone can compete with trish for top diva in history, thats the facts i want to see.
Oh and ps. In no way was devereoux ignorant in his/her post but you sure showed who is in yours….
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I’m surprised that it was nixed because it involves past divas. Had it just been current girls they never would have bothered making one.
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It upsets me more that they’re replacing it with a DVD about Mid South Wrestling. Like they wi actually do anything to get out of including the Divas in their product.
puppies Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
will*
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February 2, 2013 “National Pro Wrestling Day – Day & Evening Card Card” Philadephia, PA
everyone go over to SMV ondemand.com and watch a great show for 14.99.
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I know vinnie likes to lord it over us divas fans that he has the power to either destroy the Divas division or help it!!!! But this is getting boring now teasing us then shafting us by not doing the dvd come on someone in HQ grow a pair and help the divas become just as usful as the rest of the roaster!!!!!!
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To be honest,Vince is not the brilliant businessman in my eyes anymore.When you just cross out great opportunities to make your product better –> bring more money to your account,you’re not a real businessman.Divas can bring a lot of viewers if they’re used right and also there is a market about strong chicks.People dig it.
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@CHAROVNICA your rite he’s no business man he’s a sexist pig who would rather hire models than woman who have honned their craft in a wrestling ring for a few years and yea I get it that looks are important BUT look at ivory beth lita molly victoria nattie there all beautiful woman who trained before wwe (minus vickie) then there’s trish lalya michelle who were brought in for there looks but they trained there asses off to get better keep the kellys mayrse(who I loved) ashleys away from the ring instead of brining them up while the real wrestlers are no where to be seen or worse fired ! So I get looks are buisness but vinnie you can get both skill & looks so stop jacking off to the big guys and start caring about your company before there’s no company left !!!!!!!!!
Wolverine Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
You do know even if the divas division was scrapped, WWE would still be there right? Besides the divas have never been the ones to make money nor ratings for the company so don’t think the company would fall without the divas
at
Most likely, the list would have had Trish at number one and Lita at number two. The rest of the list (in no particular order) probably would have been:
Fabulous Moolah
Wendi Richter
Miss Elizabeth
Sherri Martel
Alundra Blayze/Madusa
Sable
Ivory
Jacqueline
Stephanie McMahon
Molly Holly
Stacy Keibler
Torrie Wilson
Melina
Candice Michelle
Vickie Guerrero
Michelle McCool
Layla
Beth Phoenix
Note: This isn’t MY top 20, so no flames, please. This is the top 20 I think WWE would have gone with. I left off Victoria and Mickie James (who both absolutely deserve it) because they’re currently working for TNA, and we know WWE wouldn’t put anyone who’s working for them on the list (remember their top 25 list from a few years ago?).
at
As ACEOFBASE said the no1 divas does not always mean trish ( don’t hate ) some folks think the No1 diva should be the whole package not just great looks& above average skills I think someone like beth melina nattie should be No1 as there beautiful and great in the ring unlike lita n trish who if were honest timing played a HUGE part in their careers ie fit findlay training them storyline they were put into that’s a part what made them great if HQ wanted too they can do the same for the new divas who could surpass trish and litas legacy in and out of the ring but alas HQ don’t care
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Um, what? Almost everyone calls Trish the total package. Neither Melina nor Natalya are the whole package.
Crazy_J Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
lol.. I think you’re just one of those people who.. Trish can do no wrong in your eyes.. and that pretty much explains why ur so annoyed because everyone isn’t agreeing with you.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
She has done no wrong. No porn, no arrests, no cheating scandals. :)
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When it comes to actual wrestling melina and nattie are WAY better than trish was as for the total package trish had that in the wwe but put her with melina nattie beth on the indy scene then you would know trish was just above average in the ring and to me the whole package means your a tremendous wrestler and very good looking with personality trish had 2 out of 3 there yes nattie beth mickie & melina weren’t as great looking as trish but all 4 were better in the ring & also had great personality when there allowed to display it!! If wwe weren’t so hung up on trish then either 1 of the 4 I mentioned could’ve passed trishs achievements. Btw I do love trish & she’s great at what she did so proud of her going into the HOF. But the wwe can make an even bigger star out of the talent they have. But they won’t
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
We are talking about the TOTAL package. The most well-rounded person. That is Trish whether or not you choose to believe it.
Ace Of Base Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Wrong again Devereux. You see how things are subjective? Still dont? While you might consider Trish Stratus the whole package, I personally believe Melina and Mickie James were also both whole package and superior on the mic as well. Their wrestling was on par with each other, but the latter two women, well they trump Mrs. Stratus there.
I’ll give you one thing though, Trish is number 1 in the eyes of McMahons and Co, because they chose it to be. Had it been a more level playing field, many women could have/still could surpass all her given titles and awards.
This is obviously not going to change your opinions and you most certainly won’t change mine. So I’ll agree to disagree. Have a nice day! O:-)
ajfan83 Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
@ Ace of Base
I agree with you for a change. McMahon annoited Trish as “the best” a long time ago, and unless she has a falling out with WWE, that won’t change any time soon. She reminds me a lot of their treatment of Cena, except you can’t even say that because the one thing people can’t take away from Cena is how dedicated he is to wrestling. Trish pretty much just uses the company to plug her yoga crap nowadays. And yet they persist with putting her on the pedestal for some reason.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Nope, it’s not as subjective as you’d like to think. Melina superior on the mic? Funny! Is that why she got crap for how fake she sounded during her face run? Trish is pretty much considered the total package. You can think otherwise all you’d like. It’s not going to change.
Ace Of Base Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Yes, I believe Melina was superior on the mic. And while I’m at it, I also think Ivory and Mickie James were better on the mic than Trish too. They came off more natural and less like they were practicing something they might have memorized beforehand. What isn’t going to change? Your opinions? Don’t I know it, which is why I said I agree to disagree. Run along with your obsession, I’ll stick to my guns as well. Good day! =)
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
You can believe Melina and Mickie were superior on the mic all you want. That doesn’t make it true. There’s a valid case for Ivory and Stephanie. Both who are widely considered two of the best female talkers in WWE. I’m talking about popular opinion here. There’s no obsession, Ace. I spend very little time browsing this site and even less time commenting. I really don’t care that much. :)
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Oh not everyone calls trish the total package that’s the great thing about having freedom of speech not everyone has to agree with the majority. But I do think her and lita were the best thing that couldve happened to the division at the time but to me they are equals neither have that total package outside of wwe
Wolverine Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Whats the total package outside the WWE?
at
Why do people have a problem with Trish being number 1?
ajfan83 Reply:
February 2nd, 2013 at
Because it’s too predictable. WWE has forcefed her as the best for so long that people are naturally going to resent her, especially if they were fans of people like Lita, Chyna, or Sable, who all had peaks bigger than Trish. She’s ONE of the top divas of all time, but not this undisputed icon that she has been portrayed as. There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
1. They had bigger peaks, but those peaks were short. Sable returned for another run and no one cared. Eventually, Chyna’s novelty gimmick would run out. Lita’s popularity declined heavily from 2001. She wasn’t getting Austin-like pops anymore. Then she broke her neck.
2. Trish was the most consistent Diva they had. She managed to stay on top the longest.
puppies Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
You can say Lita’s popularity was declining and all the bs, but bottom line is, no female face could touch Lita’s pops all throughout her face run. No one. Some of her loudest pops are from 2004, also, so I don’t know how you figure that. However, Trish was the most consistent top diva in the sense that it was very rare for Trish to be out of the title picture (or even not holding the title) from 2001- and onwards.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
@ Virginia
But Trish was never as big as those three. I mean, Cena has had a longer run on top than Rock and Austin COMBINED. He’s going to have a longer WWE run than Hogan, too, barring injury. Does that mean Cena is the greatest superstar ever? Because that’s the kind of logic you are applying to Trish. And, let’s be honest, Trish’s run wasn’t that much longer than Lita/Sable/Chyna. Her and Lita were identical, actually, and Sable and Chyna had a good four years in the company, compared to Trish’s six years. If Trish had some longevity on her side than most people would probably give her the #1 spot with little argument. But we can only judge them on the time they actually were around.
Oh, and as far as nobody caring about Sable coming back, need I remind you of Trish’s run leading up to Tough Enough 2011? That’s what you call not caring about someone coming back. So don’t even go there.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Puppies,
Lita’s biggest pops come from 2001. Period. Her popularity dropped after that. Yes, she was still more popular, but there wasn’t a huge margin between her and Trish. And that’s because she was consistent and didn’t injure herself until 2004/5.
AJFan,
We’ve already had this discussion. Replace Sable with any blonde bombshell in 1999 and you’d produce the same pops. Replace Chyna for Kharma and you’d produce the same pops. There’s nothing special there. Everyone was over around that time.
Funny how I knew you’d bring that up, so here’s a little interesting fact: WWE’s audience didn’t completely change from 1999 to 2003 like it did after Trish retired. People still knew who Sable was. They just didn’t care, because there were other blonde bombshells around.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
@ Virginia Devereux
I ain’t getting in to a debate with you again, but you skew things so much that it’s hard to take you seriously. I don’t mind people disagreeing with me, but at least they usually give reasons. You just pretty much ignore everyone’s points no matter how valid they are. And you continue to contradict yourself. Let’s see:
You said Lita’s peak popularity didn’t last long, but then admit that even when it fell she was still more popular than Trish. And this makes Trish look good how? Your whole argument that Trish was more durable and consistent would have some weight if she had some longevity over Lita. But she doesn’t.
And you always like to downplay the popularity of Sable and Chyna, but act like Trish didn’t also benefit from the time period. Tell me a lot of the modern divas wouldn’t have been more over if they got to do all the sexually provocative stuff Trish did. As I (and others) have said, Lita, Sable and Chyna got main eventer pops at various points. Trish got pops that were no greater than the stuff Stacy and Torrie got. Loud.. for a diva. Again, her career didn’t last any longer than the rest, so don’t act like she has this epic body of work that puts the others to shame. She’s not HBK, Undertaker or even Cena.
Again, as far as the audience goes, wouldn’t you think if someone was truly the “total package” and “greatest of all time” that they wouldn’t be completely forgotten within five years of their departure? Even old 80s guys like Piper, Dusty and Duggan get nostalgia pops most of the time. Trish gets nothing. So maybe she’s just like Sable. People know who she is, but they just don’t care.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
I haven’t skewed anything. You might need to look up the definition of contradiction, AJFan. Admitting that Lita was slightly more popular than Trish is not contradicting my point that Trish’s popularity was consistent in that it did not sharply decline like Lita’s did (2001 to 2002). I don’t see the contradiction there. She absolutely does have longevity over Lita, because Lita was out of action for about two years with all of her injuries.
I’m only stating valid reasons for why they were popular. Chyna was a novelty act. That’s why she was hugely popular. I don’t think that’s debatable. Sunny and Sable were beautiful, blonde bombshells that were a change of pace considering the women who were employed in the era before theirs. An arena full of testosterone isn’t going to cheer for a hot girl in the most popular period in WWE? Note that I said hot girl, because you can switch X for Y and you’d get the same result. I still don’t understand your obsession with longevity. Women’s careers don’t last very long in wrestling for various reasons. Some want to leave to start other career ventures, others want to become mothers, and so on. Simply accept that. You seem to be fighting it for some unknown reason.
She was not forgotten. She managed to get a reaction every night she was out there. Was it as big as it was before? No. Why? When the company makes the audience uninterested in the women, that’s the result. Trish isn’t above WWE’s marketing of the Divas.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 4th, 2013 at
So let me get this straight. You praise Trish for having longevity, I point out that she doesn’t, and your response is to say that longevity doesn’t matter. You knock Lita for losing some popularity, but then admit that even when it dropped she was still more over than Trish. I think I got you figured out. Your whole way of debating is to say something over and over again, and when someone points out that you’re wrong, you come back and say “that doesn’t matter”. Your a biased fanboy/fangirl, just admit it. As far as Trish being forgotten, I don’t know. My point was she barely got any response for her return. Just like Sable, But I guess according to you, Sable’s lack of hype was her fault, while Trish’s lack of hype was WWE’s fault. Ignoring that Sable got no hype on Smackdown, while Trish had all the announcers on Raw putting her over as an icon week after week. You’ll no doubt say that the audience has changed, but I already pointed out that guys from 20-30 years ago still get better pops than Trish does. Keep spinning it all you want, nobody is buying your crap.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 4th, 2013 at
I think you need to learn to read responses more than once. You seem to jump right into a reply without understanding what was said. I never said longevity doesn’t matter. You’re accusing me of skewing? Pot meet kettle. I said the longevity of a woman in the business should not be compared to a man. It’s comparing apples to oranges. Something you can’t grasp and probably never will considering I’ve already said this to you before. Woman have shorter careers in this business as active wrestlers than the men. It doesn’t mean they don’t have longevity. Six to seven years for a woman in the business is like the equivalent of 20 years for a man. Most women don’t last more than a year. Some barely last two. I hope this is the last time I have to explain this to you.
She was slightly more over, but the margin was very close. It’s not like Trish was getting mild pops. Trish’s popularity only increased. Her wrestling skills only increased. Her mic skills only improved. Nothing about Trish’s career regressed. Lita’s popularity declined, her wrestling skills declined, and she never truly was able to handle the mic well.
AJFan you don’t have very much figured out honestly. You like to pretend like you’re this realist when in fact you’re not. You like to pretend you have the facts down when in fact you don’t. It’s funny that I do have to repeat myself with you, however. It seems your lack of reading skills forces me to. Maybe if you actually read through what I write more than once, you might be able to reply with something meaningful, so that I don’t have to repeat a point I made already.
Trish got more of a pop than all of Divas on the roster bar one. She got a bigger pop than Lita did when Lita returned to present Kelly with whatever meaningless award was given out and returned to wrestle Heath Slater.
What hype could Sable get aside from the announcers stating she was very popular during the late 90s? Should they have hyped that she managed, looked pretty walking down to the ring, posed for Playboy, was the champion who refused to bump, and sued the company? Or how about that she’s one of the main reasons why the company is wary of its women? She was terribly difficult to work with and no one backstage liked her for good reason. There’s not much there once you’re done talking about popularity.
Those guys don’t get worthwhile pops. Their pops are no better than Trish’s. If you think that is somehow going to devalue Trish, I fail to see your “logic,” because it’s not there.
There’s no spinning on my part. :)
ajfan83 Reply:
February 4th, 2013 at
I’ve read your responses. You take a long time to say a whole lot of nothing. Or rather, you take a long time to say what YOU percieve to be the truth, over and over again. You keep accusing me of being a wannabe “realist”, but then do the same exact thing. So I guess you think if you insult me that means I’ll respect your opinion more? Or cave in and say “wow, you’re right”. Sorry, not happeing. I can be brief in my responses this time. Let’s see if you can do the same.
Women have had 10-20 year careers in wrestling. Many of Trish’s contemporaries have done it (or are still doing it). She had her reasons for leaving but don’t act like the length of her career is typical. It’s just typical for the models that WWE likes to push. If she has longevity, so do Stacy, Kelly and Maryse.
Trish was popular, but not any more than non-wrestlers like Torrie or Stacy. Like I said, she was big for a diva. Lita was on another level. Her run with Hardy and Edge was higher profile than anything Trish did in her career. She got more pops as a face and more heat as a heel. Don’t know why you keep arguing popularity when it’s obvious one was simply bigger for their entire careers.
Sable was more popular and more well known. That’s all I said. And isn’t it a little hypocritical to accuse Sable of being over mostly for her hotness when Trish was maintained a steady income, even post-WWE, because of her looks? If Sable were ten years younger, and lived in Canada, she’d be Trish.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 4th, 2013 at
I take a long time? Have you compared the lengths of our responses? They’re pretty much similar in length. Let’s not. No, I’m trying to be logical. You’re trying to discredit someone’s entire career because she was marginally less popular than Lita. And I’m not insulting you at all. I’m merely pointing out that you may have missed a few points while briefly reading my reply and then repeating your schtick.
Note the word HAD. WWE values youth and beauty over wrestling skills in its Divas. You will never see a woman wrestle in WWE for 20 years. Let’s not act like ten years is that much greater than six or seven, which is basically how long Trish and Lita lasted. Of course those girls have longevity. All three could have stayed on longer if they wanted to too.
I think it’s safe to say Trish was more popular than Torrie and Stacy. Lita was on another level in 2001. That ended quickly. It was far more notorious than anything Trish did — that’s for sure. As for high profile? I don’t agree. The feud between Edge and Hardy might have started over Lita’s actions, but it’s not like she was the centerpiece of that feud. The majority of Lita’s career was spent valeting. Yes, that’s her claim to fame. More heat? People genuinely hated her, so probably. Have I ever denied Lita’s popularity? Again, skewing coming from you. Not surprised at this point.
Yes, I know you did. And now she’s irrelevant to just about every casual watcher. I was just pointing out why there was no hype, because she doesn’t have anything to hype aside from popularity that was a byproduct of the era wrestling was in then. Initially, Trish was over for her looks. As her character evolved and she took bumps and showed interest in wrestling, that changed. The crowd liked women’s wrestling then. The Divas who wrestled, not just Trish, were over due to the wrestling. Post-WWE? Uh, no. Ridiculous question. It takes drive and determination to start a successful business. She’d be Trish? Really? I haven’t seen Sable start a business of her own. She surely has saved up right?
ajfan83 Reply:
February 4th, 2013 at
Except Lita wasn’t a “little more” popular than Trish. She was bigger than the diva division for a majority of her career. Trish wasn’t. What you keep insisting on is that Trish was the most succesful diva. How exactly? Because she won more titles? I guess Edge is more succesful than Hogan, Rock or Austin, then. I don’t think Trish was any bigger than Stacy or Torrie, either. They were the three most promoted women of the early 2000s They all got similiar pops, too.
I’ll drop the whole longevity thing, but the point was there are a ton of women out there who love wrestling and can do it for years, even if it’s not in the WWE system. Trish was big for a few years in one promotion. You know what they call that in other entertainment fields? A flash in the pan.
Sable is irrelevant to the fans? So is Trish. I said if Sable was younger and had the benefit of living in a country severly lacking in celebrities, she probably would have had more offers after she left wrestling. In America it’s a whole different story. You talk about Trish as if she were the diva Hulk Hogan, but yet she isn’t even a blip on the radar as far as the mainstream goes. Put things in perspective. Oh, and as far as Sable not starting a business, that’s because she started a family and is a full time mom. You know, one of the reasons Trish gave for quitting. I don’t think Mrs. Lesnar has to worry about money, either.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 5th, 2013 at
How was she more successful? Because she had full control of her career. It’s been widely noted that she helped write and produce her storylines with Raw writers. She says this herself in one of the DD interviews. She had total control of her career’s direction. I don’t think any Diva before or after her has had that much control. She was the most well-rounded. Popularity alone doesn’t equate to success.
Why should she go from wrestling for the WWE to the indies? Should a famous Hollywood actor suddenly stop making big-budget movies and start appearing in indie films? No. You don’t go from working for the top company to wrestling in the indies. That’s called regression. In every entertainment field it’s terrible to move from the top to the bottom.
Trish is nowhere near as irrelevant. When the company mentions you and some people still pop for you when you appear, you’re not irrelevant. Offers like what? Magazines? Maybe. No one offers you a business. You have to build that yourself. Have I said Trish Stratus was the most successful wrestler ever? Post-WWE, she is the most successful female in terms of profits. So you expect her to pop a baby out as soon as she retires? Please. If she wants a to stabilize her business before choosing to start a family, that’s her right. It’s not your place, or anyone’s for that matter, to question that. Yes, Sable can live off her husband’s money while the more ambitious women go earn it for themselves.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 5th, 2013 at
She didn’t have full control over her career. They kept both her and Lita off of TV for refusing to do angles. The only advanage she had over the other top divas was that she had no backstage scandals. But she was a cog in the machine, just like all the rest. Oh, and by your logic, HHH would be the greatest superstar of all time, since he had more backstage power than anyone.
I didn’t say Trish should have went to the indies. I’m saying if a woman wants to wrestle, she can keep doing so once her WWE run has come to an end. Trish just quit wrestling altogether. She doesn’t even mention wrestling except when WWE kisses her ass or is willing to let her plug something.
So now you want to rate how irrelevant someone is? If someone is forgotten, they are forgotten. Also, pretty unfair to say Sable would get no reaction. How do you know? Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn’t. Trish getting a couple of people to clap in the crowd isn’t what I’d call a great reaction. She’s just some has been diva. No amount of WWE hype can change that. And that’s the thing, WWE still promotes Trish. They don’t promote Sable. I won’t get in to the family stuff too much, but the point was Trish said she was starting a family when she left.. 7 years ago. I ain’t knocking her for not doing it, just pointing out that it was a reason she gave. More than likely so nobody would be bash her for opting out so suddenly. I think she was lying. Maybe you don’t. Neither one knows the truth.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 5th, 2013 at
You would know? Why would Ivory state that Trish could get you a 15 minute match if she asked for it? This is coming from someone who saw with her own two eyes what Trish was able to do backstage. Ivory’s doesn’t have a history of lying or exaggerating the truth. It’s clear that after a certain point (I’d say 2004 and onwards), Trish was in total control of her career. She got to work with the people she wanted to work with, which is why she and Jericho were paired together. And as I’ve already said, she got to work with top Raw writers to put together her storylines. I’d say that means she had full control. Unlike HHH, she didn’t wield whatever influence she had backstage for her own benefit. The entire division benefited. There were more well-rounded stars compared to HHH. Trish was the most well-rounded of her peers. She had a little bit of everything. That’s usually what makes you the greatest.
She RETIRED. I know it’s uncommon in wrestling to stop wrestling after you retire, but she kept to her word. She obviously keeps up with the product. She watches. She’s still a fan. There have been plenty of interviews where she’s talked about current storylines that she likes.
If she didn’t get much of a reaction in 2003 when the division was over, why would she get a reaction when most casual fans don’t care about the division? It’s just logic. WWE doesn’t promote Trish every night. The way you talk, you’re trying to make it seem like they brown nose her on a weekly basis. She’s barely mentioned. No, that’s not what she said. She said she left because 1) she wanted to get married, 2) her mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, 3) she was tired from the travel, and 4) she had thoughts about starting a family.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 6th, 2013 at
If Trish had so much power, why has WWE virtually ignored all her proposed dream matches? She’s wanted to work with Beth, Natalya, and probably a few others I’m forgetting. Yet the only time they brought her back was because they needed a female for Tough Enough. As far as Ivory, name me one match Trish had that went 15 minutes and then I’ll take her seriously. And being well rounded doesn’t make you the best. Hogan is the biggest star of all time and he could barely wrestle. Rock isn’t much better. There were more popular divas that drew more money/higher ratings than Trish. Therefore they are better than her. Numbers don’t lie.
The whole “Sable would get no reaction” is stupid. Trish gets no reaction. Make fun of Sable’s second run all you want, all you have to do is watch Trish’s hosting stint in 2009 in Toronto. I don’t really care if she wants kids or not, none of my business, but her whole tone was that she was leaving to settle down. She followed that up with reality shows, magazine shoots, and whatever else she’s doing up in Canada. The only reason she did Tough Enough was to promote her movie and try to get some publicity from Snooki.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 7th, 2013 at
And because she expresses interest over Twitter you think she actually calls the office and asks? She’s worked with Beth twice. Natalya is simply not popular enough for them to even consider. Beth was the top heel when Trish worked with her.
Are you really taking the 15 minute seriously? Ivory was generalizing. She simply meant Trish had more influence than the other women. It absolutely does make you the best. Possessing good wrestling skills, high popularity, great mic skills, natural charisma, presence does equate to having an advantage over your peers. Excelling in these things makes you the best. No, that makes them more popular. Not better. Go look up the definition of best.
Trish gets a reaction. Do I have to keep typing this. Is there silence when she comes out? Yeah, she participated in activities that required almost no travel. She said she was tired of the travel. Makes sense to me.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 8th, 2013 at
Trish has done plenty of interviews, including some with WWE, expressing interest in working with certain divas. WWE has shown no interest in doing her proposed matches. And if Ivory was just generalizing, what does her interview prove?
Popularity equals success in business. I don’t know what fantasy world you live in where it doesn’t, but you are making yourself sound naive. Since you insist on telling me to look stuff up, I did type in “success”. Definition: having achieved popularity, profit or distinction. There are divas that have been more popular, drawn more money, and are more famous. Therefore, more succesful.
If you can’t accept that, I don’t know what else to say.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 10th, 2013 at
Trish doing a WWE interview talking about working with girls she admires doesn’t mean she actually wants to return to work with them. What else is she going to talk about? It proves that she had power. Are you stupid? You can go on and on about how Trish did not have influence or very little of it, but Ivory was there. Why else would she say Trish had power if she actually didn’t?
Popularity doesn’t just equal success when you’re popular, but have nothing to really show for it. Titles are predetermined, but that is what people will remember. People will always remember the predetermined receipts; therefore, Trish will always be more successful. They were all popular. Some more than Trish? Of course, but they don’t have anything to show for it other than higher reactions. Again, Trish wasn’t that far from their reactions anyway.
The definition of popularity: “(1) The accomplishment of an aim or purpose. (2) The attainment of popularity or profit.” Trish (and Chyna probably) fits both. The other two don’t.
Wolverine Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
But she is the greatest diva in wwe history just like stone cold is the greatest superstar in wwe history,ofcourse they are gonna position then at the top
puppies Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
No, I think Trish is the famale equivalent of The Rock or Cena
Lita is Austin or whoever Cena’s more popular yet less pushed equivalent.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
@ Puppies
Trish’s fans want to pretend she’s a female Rock. In that they think she “transcended” wrestling and is some sort of celebrity ambassador for the company, which isn’t the case at all. I’d say she’s the female Cena. Popular, but not as popular as WWE presents them to be.
Wolverine Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
@puppies Pushed or not pushed, Who was top superstar in the 90′s? Could have been Randy Savage but it was Hogan,That’s a fact. Who was the top superstar in the attitude era? Could have been anybody but is was Stone Cold, Fact. Who is the top superstar today? John Cena, Fact. All my trying to say is that you can argue who should or shouldnt have been pushed but the fact is that Trish Stratus was the no.1 wwe diva in history
Ace Of Base Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
Even that can be argued though. Trish won more titles yes, but was she the most overall successful diva? I don’t know…Sable could contend with that. She wasn’t there as long as Trish Strauts, yet she broke into the mainstream bigger than Trish. Sable made was selling tickets next to Stone Cold Steve Austin which is saying a lot. Sable was a bigger deal in her time, than Trish was in hers. So id say that is up for grabs.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
@ Ace of Base
Right again. People talk about Trish as if she had a 10-15 year career. She was around for 6 years. Sable had 4. Neither one was around long, so it’s fair to compare their peaks.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 3rd, 2013 at
No, it’s really not fair to compare their peaks. You have to take into account more factors. Sable’s first run was during the Attitude Era’s highest peak. Sable (and Sunny) were special in the fact that they were also very different from the women hired before. When Trish debuted in March 2000, the division was saturated with pretty blonde girls. It wasn’t special anymore. Why did Kharma instantly become over? Because she was different from the other girls at the time. There are other factors. And no, I am not denying that Sable was more popular. That’s true, but there is a reason for it.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 5th, 2013 at
Oh, I see, it’s not fair to compare their peaks because it kills your argument that Trish was the most succesful diva. As far as the division being “saturated” with blondes, I count three; Debra, who didn’t wrestle, Terri, who didn’t wrestle, and Tori (the one who was with X-Pac), who almost never wrestled. And Trish was put in a higher spot than all of them right out of the gate, being put in matches with guys like Rock and HHH. So it’s not like WWE wasn’t trying to make her in to the next Sable. She just didn’t hit that level, although Lita did (killing your other argument that they worked in a less popular era). Plus, when the Attitude Era was totally gone, Lita was still involved in some of Raw’s top storylines, while Trish never made it out of the diva division outside of the Jericho storyline.
Why don’t you do yourself a favor and go back to just browsing this site. You’re not part of the majority that you seem to think you are.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 5th, 2013 at
Very dense. Very. More popular doesn’t mean more successful. Get it? I don’t think I need to explain this in more detail.
There was Debra, The Kat, Terri, BB, and Tori. Before that we had Sunny and Sable. Saturated fits. Let’s also not act like Trish was in anything more than one or two matches with The Rock and HHH. It’s ridiculous to say she should be hugely over with barely two segments with The Rock.
Lita was a valet. She played the part of a valet. Just like any other valet that was paired with a top guy. After the feud with Hardy was over, her presence didn’t matter.
I think it’s obvious to anyone reading your comments that you separate yourself from the majority on this site. Maybe it’s time to get back to that Twitter account you run.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 6th, 2013 at
Popularity is the only measure of success in wrestling. This isn’t art. Hogan, Rock and Austin are considered the top three stars in modern wrestling. They were the most popular and the most succesful. You’ve already admitted that some divas were more popular than Trish. Stuff like in ring skills and mic skills are all a matter of opinion. Titles are predetermined. So how is she more succesful? I’m dying to know, because you have yet to prove it.
Working with Rock and HHH is still more of a rub than any of those other women got, outside of Sable (who was already gone). And I hope you aren’t forgetting that Trish got to work with the McMahons for months. Since you downplay everyone else’s popularity so much, I’ll just point out that any blonde could have filled that role. Trish brought nothing special to it. She just got lucky to be picked.
Edge wasn’t a top guy until he was paired with Lita. She made him. Whether you choose to admit that or not is up to you. Who did Trish make again? And what top storylines was she involved with? Oh, that’s right, she never made it out of the diva division. Because she wasn’t over enough to work with anybody but the other women.
I don’t have Twitter. I’m also well aware of what the majority thinks, but at least I take the opposing view. You just find a way to piss off people that actually like Trish by overrating her.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 7th, 2013 at
She’s the most successful because she’s the most well-rounded. Whether titles are predetermined, she broke records. The company structured an entire division around her while Lita was off resting for over a year. You’d expect that when Lita returned, Trish’s time would be up. Nope. Lita simple coasted on her popularity. That’s all she did. All the men you named were constantly featured. People remember them. I’ve already said all of this and I will continue to repeat it like you choose to continue repeat your spiel.
Two appearances with The Rock and she’s supposed to become the most popular woman on the roster? Bye. That helped increase her popularity/heat, so it worked in her favor. Is that a problem?
No, the scandal made him. Can you understand that or not? It wasn’t ever going to become public until Matt Hardy decided to make it public. Lita was tossed in there because she was integral involved in that mess. They couldn’t ignore her or it wouldn’t have made sense. So working with Chris Jericho and Christian never happened right? Oh, okay. Trish had plenty of interactions with the men. That’s part of why she was so successful.
Lol, right. So you just assume I’m pissing them off? Run along now.
ajfan83 Reply:
February 8th, 2013 at
See my above comment about what success means. It’s not what you seem to think it is. She didn’t really break any records. Moolah held more titles. The belt she won 7 times is no longer around. And some current women have passed that mark already. And Lita, even coasting on her popularity, was still more over than Trish.
She worked tags with Rock, HHH, Kurt Angle, the McMahons, Jeff Hardy. You can act like it was two Rock cameos but it was far more than that. If you have to flat out lie to try to make her seem better than you’re wasting your time.
Yeah, she worked with Jericho and Christian, but that storyline did nothing for either one of those guys. In fact Jericho was booked like a chump for months after it was over. Christian stayed in the midcard and then got injured. Lita got her men farther than Trish did. Her storylines with Matt Hardy and Kane got bigger reactions.
Use all the cute condescending language you want. I know a lot of people on this site hate me. Doesn’t bother me a bit. I suggest you read some of the other replies to your stuff if you think you have any support around here. All I see you doing is pissing off Lita marks.
Virginia Devereux Reply:
February 10th, 2013 at
Lita costing on her popularity doesn’t make her more successful. What mark? The belt is retired, yes. You can’t combine title wins from two different tiles and say they hold a higher record when she never competed for the other title. It doesn’t make sense.
She worked longest with the McMahons. Just because she tagged with the guys occasionally, and it was rare, doesn’t mean she should automatically have been given huge boosts of popularity.
The Hardy Boyz were more over than Lita. They helped her rise in popularity. Not the other way around. The fact is that Lita was mainly a valet. Saying that Trish never left the women’s division isn’t going to hurt her credibility in anyway. She was a women’s wrestler. She wasn’t a valet anymore, and she wasn’t a novelty act who was hired to wrestle men.
I don’t need the support nor am I looking for it. You see me pissing off Lita marks, yet you stay pissing every mark on this site, because you like to be different? Okay, lol.
at
Not suprised, the division right now isn’t in the best place to have women from the roster comment of some of the rest. Also since Trish is gonna be in the Hall of Fame sometime soon, I reckon they’ll want footage of that for the DVD if they ever get around to making it in the future.
So right now just bring up/in more women, wait till after trish has been inducted, and then we can talk about the idea of making the DVD.