Exclusive: Mickie James Talks Final Resolution, Music Video with Trish Stratus, Her Legacy in Wrestling and More

It’s been a long time coming (two years to be precise!), but schedules finally aligned, and eight-time champion and all-around beloved wrestling star Mickie James finally joins us here at Diva Dirt to discuss her triumphant return to the ring after a health scare, facing Knockouts Champion Tara at Final Resolution this Sunday (December 9), and filming a music video with the one and only Trish Stratus.

Things have come full circle for Mickie in the past couple of years. Once the crown jewel of WWE’s Divas division, Mickie was abruptly — and shockingly — released in April 2010, and later joined TNA, where she made appearances under the name Alexis Laree long before we knew her as Trish Stratus’ kooky fan. She’s also back on the independent scene — in fact, she talks to us from backstage at an independent event — where she plugged away for six years trying to break into the WWE.

In this exclusive interview, Mickie reveals her thoughts on her release, her return to the independent scene, evaluates her growth as a performer and her long, prestigious career as an eight-time champion.

The former Knockouts Champion also talks about her new album which is due next March, her classic feud with Trish, receiving advice from Lita, Beth Phoenix‘s retirement, wrestlers she hasn’t wrestled but would like to, and the dying breed that is the women’s wrestler in the mainstream.

Listen to the exclusive interview below:

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TNA Final Resolution airs Sunday, December 9th at 8pm on pay per view.

Follow Mickie James on Twitter: @MickieJames.

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  • divaindemise

    Perhaps one of the nicest girls in wrestling? What’s to be admired with Mickie is the resiliency of her fan connection. No matter if she’s held down or fading from the spotlight, her fans remain. For me, she’s decidedly one of the titans in modern female wrestling.

    • Slapavel

      This ^^

  • YouCanLookButYouCan’tTouch

    Wow,just wow…great interview with Mickie James. Thank you Melanie so much for this. This interview honestly touched my heart. Mickie James is such a great person and competitior. She’s such a real person, and I feel that’s why myself and the fans love her. She’s had so much success in the industry so far, and I can’t wait to see her succeed even more.

  • http://twitter.com/lostmikeys Kaledrina

    love, love, love this woman. have had the pleasure of speaking to her in person a few times now and she is honestly one of the most charming, down to earth, respectful people you could meet. it’s weird, she’s been in the business for so so long and achieved so so much, yet it also kinda feels like she’s only getting started?

    honestly, i got a bit bored of mickie a couple years ago(??) when she had that uber long drawn out feud with tara/madison… but i gotta say, i’m really looking forward to her hopefully being on top again next year =)

  • Choko

    She is a great rolemodel and definately the top face womens wrestler in the mainstreams.

  • ajfan83

    I think people know I’m not Mickie’s biggest fan, but I give her credit for her longevity and commitment to wrestling. Pretty much every diva WWE has hyped up ended up using wrestling as a stepping stone or “retiring in their prime” (same thing, really). I don’t think WWE ever saw Mickie as their crown jewel, personally. McMahon has his favorites and she just wasn’t one of them. Her pushes usually came when women they wanted to push left the company or got injured. And yet, she’s had a longer career and accomplished more than all of them (including the women she “idolized” in her WWE debut). Women like her, Tara, Gail Kim, Jazz, Ivory, etc. are the ones who really carry on the line of past greats like Moolah, since they have dedicated most of their careers to the biz. And before anyone responds, if AJ goes the route of other top divas and quits I’ll say the same thing too.

    • JamesGang4Life

      As much as I love Mickie and you can tell that she’s my favorite…looked up to her since I was 11,I have to agree with your statement…and I think that the fact that she was the most popular once Trish and Lita left WWE pretty much caved in to her because we all know how they are about popularity.I don’t think they really cared for her really or even wanted to use her once the storyline with her and Trish was up but the fans loved her.

      • ajfan83

        I know it’s silly to compare wrestling to real sports, but think about this. If a popular star decided he was going to another team or getting out of the sport entirely, and the team had some decent prospects that could take his spot, would the team: promote their players so the team could keep going strong, or constantly rotate guys in and out because they were afraid one of them might surpass the previous star, who the owners always favored and wanted to be their all time great (despite the fact said player couldn’t even bother to stick around). Guess which approach WWE takes? Exactly. I kind of wish Mickie could have lasted another year or so and seen if WWE would have allowed her (or another diva) to win more titles than Trish. I know they are friends, but she even alludes to it in this interview that WWE got rid of the title so nobody could technically break the record.

        • Virginia Devereux

          What kind of delusion is this? You think a billion-dollar company cares enough about one person, a woman at that, to retire a championship so no one can break her record? The old belt was retired because they wanted to market the women differently. They want to appeal to little girls. That is why the new belt is pink with butterflies. The belt was retired under Michelle. I highly doubt she preferred the new belt over the old one. I’m sure if she had a say, she would have appealed the retirement. Your statement is just false.

        • ajfan83

          I’ve read all your posts. And I notice you constantly say that WWE considers Trish their greatest and they will continue to push her that way for years to come. And yet you think it’s out of the question that they would “retire” her title so nobody can break her record?

        • Virginia Devereux

          You have absolutely no proof that this was the reason. This is like an episode of one of the shows on the History Channel. At least my explanation is rational. WWE did rebrand the company. The Divas were one aspect of the company management rebranded. The rebranding called for the retirement of the belt.

          To clarify, it’s not just me who thinks this. WWE calls her the greatest in just about everywhere she’s mentioned. I didn’t just pull this from thin air.

  • shameronstar

    I love how this site interviews all the great females of wrestling! I’m hoping one day Vickie Guerrero and Stephanie Mcmahon get interviewed because it would be interesting to here opinions and stories from people who are large parts of the business from a non-wrestler stand point and Mcmahon’s case from the perspective of someone who has power!

    • ajfan83

      Good picks, but you know Stephanie would never do it. Judging by Lita’s fanbase on this site, I’d imagine she would attract the most attention. The most entertaining option would be either Chyna or Sunny.

      • carlos22

        Chyna, yeah sure, but Sunny? nah she’s been interviewed too much

        • ajfan83

          I think Sunny would be entertaining because of her views of herself and womens wrestling. She would say about a hundred things that would be sure to piss off many people. And not to mention all her recent issues. Entertaining in a “trainwreck” sort of way.

  • BillyGP

    I been a fan of hers since ROH and TNA so i guess im a hardcore fan. Great interview by a great woman.

  • http://twitter.com/RyanRoman0 Ryan

    I first came about Mickie in 2005 as the crazed Trish fan and easily she began to grow on me. Then I saw how loved Mickie was at WrestleMania and even o her match with Lita and couldn’t wonder why she faded off by wwe
    Never really allowing Mickie to grow, when Mickie came to TNA I saw that new passion and energy in her delivering amazing matches every week against Katie Lea, Angelina, Tara and Sarita. And even diving off the steel cage!! Mickie is an awesome dare devil! Hardcore Country forever!! I got to meet Mickie and ill never forget it she was so nice and so cool and full of energy at the table! :)
    Love and respect this woman so much!! Huge Mickie James fan over here!! :D
    Deff Awesome Kong Gail Kim Mickie Lita n Trish are the titans of Women’s Wrestling!

  • MickieFan226

    My new favorite DD Interview? I think yes. :)

  • TrishStratusFan

    Mickie is my second all time favorite wrestler. If Trish and Lita are the queens of the ring then there’s no doubt Mickie’s the princess. I loved her since day one and I hope she’s still here for many years to come.

    • ajfan83

      Except Mickie has been around far longer than Trish and Lita and has more accomplishments to her name. Moolah (even though I’m not a fan) is the queen. Mickie, Tara, Gail, etc. are the ones carrying on that tradition. Trish and Lita are more flash in the pans than legends.

      • Virginia Devereux

        How exactly is she more accomplished than the other two when neither have wrestled outside of the WWE? How do those accomplishments even matter when they’re predetermined? Trish and Lita have more name value and that is what makes them bigger stars.

        As far as the WWE goes, Trish is the queen. As far as women’s wrestling goes, Moolah shouldn’t even be praised as much as she is. Trying to hurt her competition (e.g., Wendi Richter) isn’t pioneering women’s wrestling or passing the torch for the newer generation to make it even bigger and better. Women’s wrestling outside of WWE and to a very small degree TNA is a non-factor to everyone but those that follow the indys. Therefore, Trish and Lita reign supreme. And yes, they are legends. They are the biggest female legends.

        • TrishStratusFan

          I think Moolah deserves her praise. I mean she carried that women’s championship for close to three decades and that’s when wrestling was real. And when she was alive In my opinion she was the queen and after she passed away I think she became like the queen’s mom if you will. I do agree with you though that Trish and Lita are probably the biggest legends in wwe. Just look at the pole a couple months ago about the greatest raw diva. Lita won and Trish came in second (eh silver medal is better nothing so I’m not complaining)..

        • Virginia Devereux

          Moolah carried it for that long because 1) she booked her own matches, which means she also decided who won and lost and 2) she didn’t defend all the time. It was not defended for quite a long period. That record means nothing. It’s purely revisionist history.

        • TrishStratusFan

          Well that maybe true but that’s still my opinion but I also respect your’s.

        • ajfan83

          Moolah’s name has been out there for 40, 50 years. That’s longevity, and it’s important. I think she’s overrated as a talent but the fact is people remember the name. Let’s see if anyone is still talking about Trish in 40 years. As far as Mickie, she didn’t reach Lita/Trish stardom (they never booked her that way), but she’s been doing it a hell of a lot longer. For all the hype WWE has given Trish, how many of their current audience really knows who she is? You got to earn legendary status over time, not just disappear after a few years of dominance. There’s a reason nobody would compare a Goldberg or Ultimate Warrior to a Hulk Hogan or Undertaker. 25 year runs > 5 year runs. Trish and Lita are Warrior/Goldberg level.

        • Virginia Devereux

          She started her career that long ago. Her longevity is a result of WWE keeping her name relevant. People talk about her because WWE promoted her as the greatest. They have since stopped referencing her and have started to promote Trish. Like Moolah, people will continue talking about Trish as long as WWE keeps her name relevant. It’s all about who WWE wants to promote. How many fans know Moolah even with all that praise from WWE? In a Raw crowd of 15,000 (or whatever the average is), less than 1,000 probably know of her. So much for that 50-year longevity that supposedly makes her superwoman.

          Women don’t last 25 years. Not anymore. Not WWE women. Most women don’t even last as long as Trish and Lita did. You are not supposed to compare a woman’s career length to that of a man’s. Mickie said what I’m repeating to you in the interview. It was obvious neither Trish nor Lita would continue wrestling outside of WWE. They are legends within WWE and outside with the number of girls they’ve inspired to want to become future wrestlers. If anything, Trish and Lita are the Hulk Hogan and Undertaker to Mickie’s Goldberg as far as WWE is concerned. WWE is mainstream, which means Trish and Lita will continue to be placed above all the other women. Whether you like that or not, it’s not debatable. They both worked hard, so it’s well-deserved too.

        • ajfan83

          If WWE had bothered pushing Mickie (or a few other women) at Trish’s level she could have already been surpassed. I mean Mickie was outpopping Trish regularly in 2006 and even beat her at Wrestlemania. If WWE had a falling out with Trish they could have erased her pretty easily. They even flirted with the idea in the middle of McCool’s megapush, but, lucky for Trish, she never caught on at all. You say most of the fans don’t know or care about Moolah. How many of them care about Trish? Have you heard the crowd reactions to her in recent years? It’s been very low for someone you claim is iconic.

          And yeah, I know women aren’t going to last 25 years anymore. But a lot of women (including Mickie) have lasted over a decade. Trish and Lita didn’t even come close. WWE can praise them (mostly Trish) all they want, sooner or later (I say sooner) their names are going to seem as ancient to fans as Moolah’s. But Moolah was at least around and known for a long time. Trish/Lita only have the Attitude and Ruthless Agression fans talking about them now.

        • Virginia Devereux

          Mickie plateaued very quickly. Her reactions never grew after that. Maria was catching up to her reactions. The only reason Mickie was getting some more reactions from time to time is because Trish’s character was getting stale. She had the championship forever it seemed like. Not surprising that at WM the fans switched. The switch probably wouldn’t have been as extreme had WM not been in Chicago, a city known for it’s vocal fans.

          Does it matter how many care for Trish? The fact remains that they know of Trish. No casual fan knows who Moolah is. WWE stopped mentioning her. They have a new greatest to keep mentioning: Trish. As for Trish’s reactions, they’ve been decent. Compare her reactions to the one Lita got when she showed up to give Kelly a Slammy. There was no pop at all. Furthermore, Trish got louder reactions than most of the women on the roster bar Kelly Kelly, whose reactions also decreased after a point.

          Crowd reactions of a woman who’s been retired for six years isn’t what makes her legendary and iconic. It’s what she did that does. Countless women have said she was a major player in the women getting more time. She pushed for the girls. Don’t try to ignore how well received she was in her peak.

          So what if they didn’t come close to a decade? They felt they did all they needed to do, so they left. There is no correlation to a longer career leading to bigger moments. I don’t know what Lita is doing, but Trish has created a nice niche for herself in Canada by reigniting her fitness career and opening a yoga studio. She regularly gets invited to promote her products on Canadian talk shows and magazines. She’s doing well for herself. Better than all the other women are. Stacy Keibler, even while dating one of the biggest actors in Hollywood, can’t seem to score a full-time acting job. What’s she going to do when she gets dumped? What are the other women doing? Nothing notable.

          As long as WWE keeps Trish’s name relevant, the casual fans will be aware of her presence. Who cares how long Moolah was around? I’m not going to pander to the revisionist history surrounding her and how she somehow championed women’s wrestling. She almost killed it. If it weren’t for her good relationship with WWE, no one would even remember her. Wendi Richter would have made fans forget about Moolah.

          That last part is so far from the truth. Go look online. Take a look at Twitter if you must. New fans everyday are discovering Trish, Lita, and the previous generation of girls. At least watching them is more entertaining than watching what we’ve gotten the last six years: the equivalent to watching paint dry.

        • ajfan83

          And what happens if WWE wants a new queen? Trish will fade in to obscurity like Moolah. Notice she is willing to put over unover girls like Beth and Natalya, but never said anything about Kelly when she was becoming the new “it” girl and still hasn’t said anything about AJ. If Trish follows her pattern I expect her to start praising Eve in the next month or two, hoping WWE will give her a Wrestlemania spot. She seems to do that every year with the current champion. That’s the only way she can keep her name out there, truth be told.

          And why do her fans always bring up her fitness career as proof of her popularity? You think anyone outside of Canada is even aware of that? I ain’t bashing the country, but they are known to put homegrown stars on a higher level than international ones. This is the country that thinks Bret Hart is a bigger name than Hogan, Austin, and Rock. It’s not an accurate measure of worldwide fame. Most famous Canadians made their name in America. That’s a fact.

          But yeah, back to the topic. Once WWE finds a new golden girl to push, that’ll be it for you-know-who. A real wrestler like Mickie can take solace in the fact that she had a longer career, won more titles, went different places. I’m not even her fan, but I’ll defend her in that regard. Same is true for Tara, Gail, etc. You know, career wrestlers.

        • BillyGP


          Mickie was one of the most popular divas specially after Lita and Trish left. I don’t know where you got that her reactions never changed or gotten less in her WWE career.

        • Virginia Devereux

          So what if WWE wants to push another girl? They’re already doing this with AJ. What Trish accomplished is set in stone. Another girl isn’t going to come in and ignite a wildfire like Trish did with women’s wrestling. It’s already been done. She left her mark. The women that worked with her left their marks. Somethings are once-in-a-blue-moon type of events. Just like no other girl is going to come in and do what Wendi Richter did with Cyndi Lauper. It’s already been done. History will forever remain history.

          Trish can do whatever she wants. If she wants to return to get another WM moment, then more power to her for being able to wave her wand and come back as she pleases. It’s not her problem that the company loves to bring her back. WWE loves bringing back stars from it’s former glory days.

          Why bring up her fitness career? Probably because she found some success with it. No one is saying she’s the next Jillian Michaels. She knows where she stands. If you didn’t read it correctly the first time, I said she created a nice niche for herself. I didn’t say she build a vast yoga and fitness empire. Mind you Canada has a population of around 34 million. At least Trish at least one to five million Canadians know of her and what she’s doing currently. They’ve seen her on Canadian TV and on Canadian magazines. What are the other women doing? You think Gail Kim is going to get the same recognition? What about Natalya after she’s done with wrestling? What about any other female Canadian wrestler? The fact of the matter is Trish is far more successful than her female peers. At least you don’t see her rushing to the monthly Comic Con to pay the bills. She’s making enough money to live better than most.

          We’ll see just how over it will be. Don’t underestimate Trish. She’s not another bimbo the company hired. As far as business goes, she knows how to deal. We’ve seen it from the start of her career. Of course Mickie would stick to wrestling. Her music career isn’t going to pay any bills. Had she found the same success as Trish outside wrestling, she would have left too. Don’t preach to the choir when you have no idea what Mickie actually wants. The second WWE calls, she’ll go running back to where she wants to be. If her music career even takes of in the slightest where she can live comfortably just making music, she’s not going to wrestle anymore. At least Trish is making more money in Canada with her business ventures than these “career wrestlers.”

        • ajfan83

          I feel like I’ve seen your writting style before. I can’t quite figure out who you are, but I know I’ve seen it. Nevertheless, I don’t agree with you. I don’t really get this new trend of praising people that leave the business and making fun of people that stick with it, but so be it. At least you’re not as annoying as that Perceval twirp, who talks like he’s speaking down to everyone from the top of Mount Sinai.

        • Virginia Devereux

          My writing style is no different than those who also prefer to write coherently and gramtically correct. You might not see that regularly here as only a handful of people type correctly.

          There’s nothing with getting out of the industry when you feel you’ve accomplished enough. I can say the same for you: Praising those that stay forver and ridiculing the ones that leave is no better.

          Nothing I’ve said is meant to be annoying; it’s wrestling after all. Your comments, however, sure do annoy many here.

        • ajfan83

          People on this site find me annoying because they usually can’t counter what I’m saying. Opinions are one thing, but once you throw a fact or two at them they have no clue how to respond. You were doing pretty well until you want off on that tangent blasting Stacy for not being more famous or something. Ignoring the fact that Trish is a nobody outside of Canada. The only difference I see between them is one says “stepping stone” the other says “leaving at your peak”. Same crap, but maybe it does prove Trish is a little smarter with how she words things. The only reason I go after her so much is because so much of her “legacy” is embellished. It’s like her and her fans want to have their cake and eat it too. She leaves wrestling really early but yet is supposed to be treated like this all time legend. You even said it yourself that WWE feeds this by constantly hyping her up despite how irrelevant she is to their current fanbase. If she was bringing in the buzz and money that Rock does I could see the purpose. But she doesn’t. So to me it’s just Moolah 2.0, without the years put in to really justify it.

          That’s about all I’m gonna say on this topic. I know people are sick of it, and I’m sick of saying it. I might just be a spectator around here from now on. Clearly I’m in the minority and people are gonna keep kissing the same asses they have always been kissing. Repond however you want, I’m done.

        • Virginia Devereux

          You don’t state facts. You state what you think are facts. A lot of the points you make can’t be supported by facts. Maybe that’s why they seem to get annoyed with you.

          My reason for including Stacy Keibler was to prove that Trish was the most successful woman outside of the company. I never said she was the most famous. Stacy is more well-known in the US. I’m not sure the case outside of the US as no one really cares for George Clooney’s girlfriend. Even so, the media coverage has died down now. Pretty soon she’ll be another ex who never established herself in Hollywood. I included Stacy because she has the best chance for success (for now), because she’s dating one of the biggest and most influential stars in Hollywood. That could open a lot of doors for her, but it clearly hasn’t done much but get her one or two headlines.

          I never brought up Stacy and lambasted her for using the words “stepping stone.” I don’t care how she fells about her wrestling career. Trish’s legacy isn’t embellished. Other woman, namely Ivory, have said that Trish was a major factor is the women getting more time and development. She didn’t leave wrestling really early either. Divas’ careers end after six, seven years usually. She’s treated like a legend because up until she arrived, no one was that well-rounded. She was the total package that “put it all together,” says Ivory, who is known for her candid opinions on wrestling.

          I never said she was irrelevant. Also note that all WWE retirees are famous only within their own fan base. The only true exception is The Rock. Maybe Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin to a smaller extent. It’s also a given that these three men would be far more popular inside wrestling compared to Trish and the other women too. So only three out of how many? Yeah that explains it.

          We don’t exactly know how much money she brings in for them. Obviously it’s not going to be the anywhere close to what The Rock would bring in. She’s far better than Moolah. There have be no counts from others to suggest that she’s tried to ruin careers. She’s only helped the other women. Mickie talks about this in the interview.

          You know, it doesn’t hurt to see it in their light. Trish and Lita were integral parts to women’s wrestling. They helped expand the product from what it was when they took the helm. No one expects you to bow down and kiss their feet.

        • ajfan83

          I wasn’t even going to respond, but the more I thought about it, the more your last post annoyed me. I’ll tell you why. You try to downplay other womens success in and out of the business to make Trish seem better. I’ve seen this with Rock fans, too. The guy vanishes for almost a decade, has a profitable yet underwhelming film career, and then returns and suddenly people are saying he’s the “greatest of all time”. Then to further feed his ego he gets to pin the top guy in the company. And I’m still waiting for all the amazing “mainstream” attention he’s supposed to bring in, cause I haven’t seen it yet. Wrestling fans think he’s a big deal, but in Hollywood he’s just some C-list action guy whose only real successes have been sequels and franchise spinoffs.

          How’s that apply to Trish? Well, let’s see what you said. You said she’s not very famous, but yet is the most succesful former diva. And that’s probably true, but only because the other ones have been such flops. Let’s see, she runs a yoga studio in Toronto. She’s been on a bunch of minor Canadian magazine covers. As far as I can see, that’s about the extent of her success outside of wrestling. Again, better than most, but hardly something I’d hold over everyone else’s heads, especially to put down her peers.

          And yes, her legacy is embellished. Who really cares what Ivory said? If Trish paved so much road how come the division has been widely considered a joke for the better part of a decade (since 2005 in some people’s opinions). Please don’t use minor league promotions like Shimmer, which draws 300 people if they are lucky, as proof that she started a new era of womens wrestling. Anyone remember GLOW? And I can name tons of women that wrestled longer than Trish, including many of her WWE rivals, so to act like her departure was typical is just more excuses on your part. You think WWE wouldn’t have kept her around? Have you seen the constant ass kissing they’ve given her since leaving?

          Oh, and I was the one who said she was irrelevant. I am basing that on the “WWE Universe” reaction to her the last several times she has showed up. Lita getting weak reactions as well doesn’t make Trish better. It just shows they have both been forgotten by modern fans (the ones who came in after they quit). I think it’s cute that you only mentioned Rock, Hogan, Austin as being more popular than Trish in wrestling. I think you left out about 20 guys in WWE currently, not to mention some of TNA’s guys as well. And if you think Rock’s the only guy famous outside of wrestling, I think you’ve been living under a rock since Hulkamania started in the 80s. Hogan is still more famous to this day, even if his life is a trainwreck at this point.

          And I’ll concede that Trish drew more money than Moolah, if only because nobody was buying magazines or posters with Moolah dressed in skimpy clothing. Other than that? How many tickets or PPVs did Trish sell, even in her prime? How much does Trish bring in for WWE today, when they haven’t released any new merchandise for her since 2006?

          That’s all I got. If you want to believe she’s the greatest, so be it. I can’t change your mind. The way I see it, it’s just WWE putting her on top of some of their goofy lists because someone in the back (probably McMahon) has a soft spot for her. A true legend would get a legend’s reception when they came back, and she hasn’t. So I stand by my original point that her “crown” is in name only.

        • Virginia Devereux

          How could I possibly downplay other women’s success outside the industry when there is none? What are they doing? Please tell me. Lita is a radio host with a flop band; Mickie has a flop music career; Stacy is dating an A-list actor, but can’t score a full-time role. What are the others doing? Showing up at the monthly Comic Cons. What’s Trish doing? Running an actual business that’s gotten the attention of the Canadian media as well as Canadian sport’s teams. She’s covering Canadian magazines, which by proxy feature her brand. She’s appearing on Canadian talk shows regularly, which give both her and her brand media attention. Above all else, she’s started to expand into selling yoga in the form of her fitness gloves, DVDs, etc. Is she successful? I’d say she’s slowly rising through the ranks. She’s clearly continuing to release more and more products. Clearly this means her business isn’t failing. Otherwise why waste the money? So now try to refute this by trying to downplay her success as being only in Canada. Whatever because I’ve already mentioned that Canada has a population of around 34 million. If at least one to five million know of her, then she’s got more name value than the other retired women. She’s more relevant than most of the girls actually in wrestling. Ask WWE fans if they can even name a woman on the roster than isn’t AJ or Kelly Kelly, who they probably don’t even know is gone.

          Why is she better? Because she’s had more success and worked harder than the other women. Everyone has praised her work ethic. Clearly the more you put in, the more you get out. I’m not going to touch on The Rock, because I simply don’t care to. I don’t care that he left and didn’t spend years upon years wrestling to please you.

          I find it interesting that you sit here and tell me that you provide facts. It seems like Trish has you pressed, which is why you try your best to undermine her success. I’ve addressed her success above and in my previous replies in detail. If you want to close your eyes to the truth, then you can continue to live in this bubble where you feel you’re a realist. It’s not true, however.

          Who cares what Ivory said? Clearly women’s wrestling fans care or we wouldn’t be asking her to give us her opinions. That came from an interview. It’s clearly important in this discussion as no other woman couldn’t accomplish everything in the way Trish did. Why has the division been a joke? Why has every division within WWE been a joke? The entire product sucks. There vision is dead, and you have an out-of-touch-with-reality geezer who can’t come to admit that he’s lost his touch indefinitely. Of course she helped bring about independent promotions. GLOW was dead for a long time. Independent women’s wrestling was dead until a couple of year before Trish and Lita retired.

          She left, because she wanted to leave. Get over it. It’s not a big deal. She had bigger aspirations than wanting to wrestle until her death bed. She was getting married, and her mother had a cancer scare. Those were major reasons why. She’s made this more than clear. A person like Trish’s name value isn’t going to leave WWE and wrestle in the indys. She didn’t want to travel 300 days either for aforementioned reasons. Stop trying to paint that as a valid reason to diminish her legacy. People remember her more than they do the career wrestlers you mentioned. The Interest wrestling fans remember her more than these career wrestlers too. She cemented a strong legacy for herself. Probably the strongest of any woman. She will be able to keep her relevance for years and years to come? We’ll see. Unless you’re clairvoyant, there’s no point in trying to reject tell me she won’t be remembered with a definite no.

          She still got more reactions than the other Divas on the roster bar Kelly Kelly. Stop trying to compare her reactions to what Stone Cold and The Rock got. I’ve never put her on their level. Trish getting more reactions than Lita definitely matters. So many Lita fans and Trish detractors try to point out that Trish is wearing out her welcome, but what about Lita? She never returned and still no one cared. What did her fans say before? Oh that’s right, they said she’d get a bigger pop than Trish because she’s been away for so long. What did she actually get? Dust. So one at least incites a reaction. I don’t know why you think that’s cute, because I never said that. If you read my paragraph correctly, I was talking about retirees. I don’t care if Hogan is more famous than The Rock or vice versa. That’s irrelevant to this discussion. No one but a small niche of fans care about wrestling. It’s not like it matters who the most famous wrestler ever, because in reality that person is still not even close to the amount of fame one can reach.

          Oh yes, let me just pull up the numbers for you. Stats like that aren’t public knowledge nor are they released. Stop asking questions that I can’t answer with actual facts. Let me, however, add that she and Lita were given lots of new merchandise in rotation. Clearly their merchandise was selling, which suggests that there were fans that bought PPV tickets to see them primarily.

          Yeah, you don’t have very much. I’ve refuted all your points before, and I’ve done so with more logic than you’re probably used to here. I’m not trying to equate Trish to a wrestling deity that brought in millions. She did more than all the other women, and that alone cements her status as a legend. She doesn’t need to chain herself to the industry. A true legend? That’s funny. Besides the most famous wrestlers, I don’t see most getting this “legend’s reception.” So I assume since you consider the career wrestlers more legendary than Trish, they should be able to pull this “legend’s reception.” Women are a smaller niche in the niche that is wrestling. Stop expecting such receptions from them.

        • ajfan83

          Well, obviously there’s no point in bringing up facts since neither one of us will agree with them. I thought I had agreed that Trish probably had more success outside of wrestling than the others by default. The only point I made about Canada is that they tend to idolize their own, and are more accepting of wrestlers in general. If Trish lived in the states we’d most likely be making fun of her post-WWE failures too.

          When you say stuff like “Trish is better because she worked harder” you prove you’re a blind fan of hers. How did she work harder than the other women? She wasn’t the best wrestler and certainly wasn’t as commited to the business as a whole as say a Tara or Jazz are. Trish was “better” because she got put in the top spot and happened to be prettier than most of the other girls so she could be marketed more.

          Indepenedent womens wrestling was around way before Trish, that’s my point. It’s still the tiniest niche in wrestling, so please don’t think it’s big time just because of the site you’re on. The biggest thing Trish’s success led to was the diva search, because she proved to McMahon that models could be decent performers. Whether that’s a positive or negative is for you to decide.

          I wouldn’t care so much that she left if people stopped overrating her “legacy”. And fan reaction plays a huge role in that. Why even bring Lita in to this. They have both gotten s**t reactions. I saw reports from Trish’s return last year that many in the crowd genuinely didn’t know who she was. What, are you going to say they suddenly forgot Trish existed because she changed her hair color or something? I don’t need to look in to the future to see if Trish will be remembered by the WWE fans or not. I’ve already heard the reception to her in the present. Obviously the internet is different because it tends to attract older fans in general.

          As far as merchandise, how much did she have? I remember one shirt, a few posters, and the DVDs with all the divas on them. So if “Divas Do New York” outsells an Undertaker set, does that mean more people are going to pay to watch Torrie Wilson wrestle? Point being, selling a few items based on sex appeal doesn’t mean someone is a wrestling draw. I think Sable and Chyna were draws for a little bit in the late 90s, Ricther in the 80s, but that’s about it. Trish is sexy enough to sell some magazines, which is why she still gets them. Has nothing to do with wrestling.

          You really didn’t refute anything. You just proved you buy in to the way WWE promotes her. I don’t exactly see how she did more than all the other women, outside of a few scripted accomplishments. The WWE hype machine can continue to put Trish over if they want, as soon as she pops up again and nobody cares the illusion is gone.

        • Virginia Devereux

          If you agreed, then there was no need to make a statement like this: “You try to downplay other womens success in and out of the business to make Trish seem better.” If you agree, then you know that I haven’t downplayed any woman’s success to make Trish seem better. So Gail Kim, Natalya, or Angel Williams can start a business and Canadians will care? Canadians make idolize their homegrown celebrities, but that doesn’t mean that those celebs will be that support into profit. Again, I bring up the three women I listed. Even with Natalya being a Hart, she won’t have the same success outside of wrestling like Trish. I’m not making fun of anyone’s post-WWE failures. I’m just putting their accomplishments into perspective. I don’t expect retired women’s wrestlers to achieve post-wrestling success, fame on the level of Lady Gaga or Rihanna.

          I’ve said nothing to prove that I blindly follow her. I’m only repeated what people like Jim Ross have said about her. Obviously I’ve never met her, so the only thing I have to go on is what others in the industry say. Credible people in the industry to be more accurate. You’ve yet to provide actual proof. This is why I said you like to believe you’re a realist, but you have nothing to substantiate your claims. Women like Jazz were already established wrestlers. They entered the business wanting to be wrestlers. Clearly Trish was not anticipating such a career. When she was signed, however, she worked a lot harder to get to where she was than say a Kelly Kelly. She had more to prove than someone like Jazz, who entered the WWE as a great athlete. Trish had to work that much harder to become a wrestler, because she wasn’t one.

          I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said it was dead before Trish was even signed. Women’s wrestling in WWE helped inspire a comeback of sorts. The Diva Search helped too, because indy promoters were tired of the horrible state of mainstream women’s wrestling. When have I made women’s wrestling sound like it has a big time platform? This entire time I’ve been saying it was a niche within a niche! The Diva Search isn’t a bad thing at all. It led to some shady hiring for sure, but a mainstream company needs to sell beauty. It’s a requirement for the entertainment industry. So that’s another one of her accomplishments. Kudos to her!

          I brought Lita in to prove she’s not above the hype. Her fans ran a muck claiming she’d get huge pops when she returned. She got nothing, so I hope they’ve been humbled. If people didn’t know who she was that’s not her fault. The company was re-branded after she left. Clearly a new audience full of little kids isn’t going to pick up on who she is. Let’s also not forget the horrible state of the division. If no current Divas are getting great reactions, then you can’t criticize her reactions. She still got more of a reaction than the current Divas when she returned. How many more times will I need to say this? Will I need to repeat everything I’ve been saying for the past day or two? You’re going in circles at this point. Like I said already, you’re not clairvoyant, so don’t jump the gun. You’re making a bold claim that’s all. No different than people running around saying the world will end.

          She had more than one shirt. Both she and Lita had merchandise that sold well. They did draw people in. Believe it or not, women’s wrestling was entertaining from 2002 to 2006. The entire division was a draw for fans of it. Clearly there was also an increase in female viewership around that time. Part of that is credited to a stronger women’s division. To downplay that is horrible.

          I’ve refuted every point. As said before, you like to make bold claims that you can’t back up with actual proof. If I haven’t provided proof, I’ve provided logic. I don’t just pull from a hat. I don’t go around defending Trish daily, but if there’s a point I find totally irrational like your original one, I’ll comment. It’s ironic you say a few scripted accomplishments. Every accomplishment in wrestling, mainstream or independent, is scripted. So your original comment about Mickie accomplishing more means absolutely nothing then. I’m glad we cleared that up as well.

        • ajfan83

          Her post-wrestling success has been limited mostly to Toronto. I probably worded it wrong, but it’s not so much that you are downplaying other’s success, it’s that you are overrating Trish’s success. And aren’t you playing the prophet now by saying no other Canadian diva could have any success on their own? I guess we’ll never know since those other girls are still in the wrestling business. Which, according to you, is a negative trait to have.

          So Trish had to work harder in WWE to become a wrestler than somebody who had already been trained, like Jazz? And? All that proves is that wrestling was something she just sort of fell in to. Which is probably why it was easier for her to leave than someone who grew up loving it like Jazz. But I forgot, staying in wrestling is bad. Funny you mention Kelly. Her career was only a few months shorter than Trish’s. Which one used wrestling for fame again?

          The more you talk about independents, the more your defense of Trish falls apart. You’re saying companies like Shimmer were formed to counter the WWE style. So they formed because they wanted women that weren’t like Trish and the diva search women that came in her wake. And Trish is getting credit for hot girls getting in to wrestling too? Holy crap, she invented EVERYTHING.

          Forget Lita. I’m not a fan and I don’t care what her rabid fans were saying. Obviously nobody knows who she is either. But the whole idea of a legacy is being remembered. So if Trish gets lukewarm receptions, doesn’t that mean she didn’t leave much of a legacy? I don’t know how exactly she got better pops than the current divas. They come out to mostly silence and Trish came out to mostly silence. And it’s not like she was gone for years and years when the pops died out. People started noticing it when she hosted Raw. Just three years removed from WWE. In her hometown, btw.

          2002-2006 is considered a down period for WWE. It was that limbo era between Attitude and PG. Most famous for HHH’s dominance, Lesnar’s megapush and departure, and Cena and Evolution rising through the ranks. If anything, business picked up after Trish left, once Cena was firmly established as their top guy. So she was a midcard attraction when WWE was trying to find their way again. Hardly revolutionary stuff. Unlike Ricther/Lauper, Sable, Chyna, and dare I say it, early Lita. All were bigger in bigger eras.

          So I’ve refuted all your points, but it doesn’t matter since we don’t agree with each other. This debate is pointless. As far as scripted accomlishments, that’s pretty much what you’ve been trying to defend the whole time. Your whole defense for Trish is how WWE pushed her and continues to present her. If they said Cena was the greatest ever would you suddenly agree with them? My point was if somebody wins more titles, has a longer career, and is more relevant to people watching wrestling today, they have, in my opinion, had a better career. You can’t just walk away from the business in your “prime” and expect the top spot to be yours forever. Honestly, I doubt Trish even cares that much at this point. It’s hardcore fans like you that can’t seem to accept that time stops for nobody and people move on after a while.

        • Virginia Devereux

          Do you follow Trish’s post-wrestling career at all? You shouldn’t make statements like the one you just did. She’s growing her entire brand through major areas in Canada. Her products are sold in various stores across Canada, not just in Toronto. I am most definitely not overrating her success. I’ve listed every single thing she’s done and is doing since retiring. I’ve stated facts and that’s that. No, it’s fairly obvious that Canada doesn’t care about Gail Kim. She’s irrelevant to them. Most probably don’t even know her. Trish was well-received by Canada while she was still wrestling. Gail Kim has yet to accomplish this. The same with Angel. Some know Natalya due to her family, but Trish is still more famous in Canada. I never said it was a negative trait. I never said anything along those lines. I don’t criticize someone for sticking to it (as long as it’s not a crutch they can’t give up due to losing everything else) nor do I criticize someone for leaving it. People can do whatever they please. I don’t care too much.

          You do way too much. Get over the fact that people can leave wrestling and not look back. Yes she did work harder to become a decent wrestler, because she had to make it happen in a shorter period. Jazz trained for many years most likely. Trish had like, what, a year to train? Then when she was debuted, she had to train while traveling around the world. It’s not easy. She turned out better than all the models who entered the industry around the same time. I’d say she was the best model-turned-wrestler to date (unless you count Michelle as a model, then she’d be second). You’re trying to tell me Kelly didn’t use wrestling for fame? Oh right, so when she was on break trying to get signed to agencies and hosting Maxim parties, she wasn’t using wrestling as a stepping stone? Oh right, so now she’s trying to sell this little calendar she’s putting together. She’s not using her wrestling fame? They both used it. Don’t try that.

          No, my defense doesn’t fall apart. Don’t twist my words. What company doesn’t want a gorgeous girl that can wrestle well? Is there such a company? The state of the division after the Diva Search is something that influenced promoters to start promotions. Note that Trish was injured during this time and out of action for like four months. Along with that, the 2001-2004 years inspired the promoters too. Who was leading the division? Oh that’s right, it was Trish and Lita. I find it hilarious that you’re trying to mock her being credited for the Diva Search when you credited her for it.

          You might want to watch her entrances again. There is a pop and it’s louder than what most Divas get. Her WM pop was louder than Lay-Cool’s “heat.” So then by your logic Moolah has no legacy either, because no one remembers her. Of course news fans, who make up the majority of WWE audiences now, don’t remember Trish. That doesn’t mean her legacy isn’t cemented. All the new girls coming in want to be like her and do what she did. That’s legacy right there. It doesn’t matter if the accomplishments were scripted. She was smart enough to make it happen by working hard and knowing how to play the game. Things don’t just fall into your lap; you’ve got to make them happen. She helped write and produce her angles with Brian (can’t remember the last name), one of the head writers of Raw.

          What? Nothing has picked up. They’re losing more money now than ever. They’ve lost viewers too. Her era was much bigger than the one we’re in now. Cena can sell all the merchandise he possibly can. It doesn’t make up for poor PPV buys. Everybody in the Attitude Era was over. Eve can switch places with Sable and she’d be more over than Trish too. Chyna was a novelty attraction who was paired with some of the top guys in the company. Obviously she got a huge rub from that. Richter had Lauper, who was the biggest female artist out at the time before Madonna quickly overtook her and dominated pop culture since then.

          No you haven’t really. All you’ve done is try to downplay. I’ve not been trying to defend scripted accomplishments, because I already stated since the very beginning that everything was predetermined, so your original point about Mickie James means absolutely nothing. They wouldn’t say he was the greatest ever, because there are people like Hulk Hogan who had a better career. Just like the WWE doesn’t list another woman as the greatest ever because no one had a better career than Trish in WWE as far as females go. In regards to, “My point was if somebody wins more titles, has a longer career, and is more relevant to people watching wrestling today, they have, in my opinion, had a better career”: No other retiree is more relevant than Trish to mainstream wrestling fans. Time doesn’t stop for anybody and people move on after a while. Maybe down the line, the WWE will call someone else the greatest, but we’ll never know until that time comes. As of now, Trish wears her crown proudly. That’s also true for wrestlers. They move on from the business. They don’t need to be there forever. And your last point of people moving on is true of wrestlers as well. They’re allowed to move on. It’s their choice, so stop obsessing over it.

        • ajfan83

          The thing I find most hilarious about this whole war of words is that they haven’t locked the comments section yet. Either nobody is paying attention or people are getting enjoyment out of it. Nevertheless, I’m pulling out because we’ll never agree and I got better things to do. This is the last I’ll respond:

          1. Trish is the only WWE diva that still lives in Canada. It’s pretty obvious she would be more embraced by the country when all the others moved to the states.

          2. I only mentioned Kelly because people bash her for not caring about the business. Yet she lasted as long as virtually every diva to come before her (including Trish). If Kelly was given as many accolades as Trish would we also be calling her a legend now?

          3. You said Shimmer and promotions like it were created to counter what WWE was doing. So you’re saying they wouldn’t hire Trish then? And I think you missed my point about the diva search. I didn’t say it was a good thing. I just said Trish helped inspire it.

          4. Trish getting a bigger reaction than Michelle McCool is hardly an accomplishment. Michelle might be the least over diva the WWE has ever pushed. It doesn’t change the fact that Trish’s pops, even in Toronto where she is supposedly so popular, have died out. I don’t know why you keep knocking Moolah. I never praised her outside of the fact her name has been around forever. My point was that’s all Trish is now, a name from the past that means little to current fans.

          5. I like how you downplay the popularity of the women I mentioned and then accuse me of doing the same with Trish. We can only judge people by the time they were in the company. All those women were more popular than Trish was in her time.

          6. WWE rewrites history all the time. I don’t think they would be stupid enough to say Cena was bigger than Hogan, but they’ve done other goofy things (like saying Shawn Michaels was the top superstar of all time a couple of years ago). Unless you’re trying to say Trish is to the women what Hogan is to the men. Which I don’t see how anyone could with a straight face.

          I’ll look forward to your last response. Telling me how delusional I am or whatever. Take care, fanboy/fangirl.

        • Virginia Devereux

          Well that was quick wasn’t it? I take a break from studying for my finals and you’ve already replied. I’m glad you’re stimulated. :)

          1. So what? Those girls can move back and my point would still stand.

          2. If Kelly actually improved, had Trish’s charisma and mic skills along, and collaborated with the writers to create a solid division, we might be calling her a legend. She didn’t, and now she’s gone. Let’s shed a tear.

          3. Um that’s not all I said. I said they were also created due to the success of women’s wrestling in WWE, which I credit Trish partly for because she worked with head writers to write and produce her angles. I know you didn’t say it was a good thing, but I did.

          4. Not just Michelle, but all the women. The only one who was more popular was Kelly who had come off the heels of a hot angle with Edge and Vickie. I brought up Moolah because you were praising her legacy, which, going by your definition, means nothing. I’ve already talked about how a whole new audience isn’t going to recognize someone who they didn’t watch develop.

          5. I’m not downplaying. Rather I’m putting their popularity in perspective. Trish was popular standing on her own two feet. Lita’s popularity died down from her first two years by the way. Trish’s popularity only increased.

          6. I’m not taking away from Hogan’s impact no matter how insufferable he is now. What he did was amazing and will probably never be repeated. I’m just saying Trish had more success than all the women before her and all the women currently in wrestling.

          Well I don’t like to repeat myself, but I had to with you. However, I did not repeat delusional. :) I guess I’ll see you around, and if I see you trying to be a realist, I might step in. Bye friend. Time to get back to studying so I can ace my orgo final.

  • TrishStratusFan

    I meant to say biggest legends as far as the divas are concerned.

    • ajfan83

      You might be right about that. But that’s only because WWE refused to push anyone at that level after they left. And in that case, Mickie wouldn’t be 3rd. She’s behind Sable, Sunny, Chyna, McCool (sad but true) and others in the pecking order. Outside of WWE is a different story.

      • BillyGP

        Mickie is third sorry WWE did not push her she pushed her self carrying the division Melina and other even McCool has said that about Mickie. AJFan Mickie was while not in the eye of the WWE a big star she was in the fans or as they call it the WWE Universe a big star. Plus the Queens Trish and Lita both passed the torch to Mickie. Also Lita started the same year as Mickie she was in ECW first and in Mexico.

        • ajfan83

          Mickie’s had a better wrestling career than Trish or Lita, but as far as WWE goes she isn’t as important as a Sable, or Chyna, or Sunny, or Wendi Ricther, or Elizabeth. You need to stop being a mark for her for a minute and realize “history” isn’t just the past 6 years. If she was that big a star than some people outside of wrestling would know who she is. They don’t. And the whole “pass the torch” thing is overused. WWE never intended Mickie to be as big or bigger than Trish or Lita. She just benefited from both of them quitting at the same time. Passing the torch is something like Warrior pinning Hogan clean and the WWE calling him “the future”. And you see how well that worked out.

        • BillyGP

          To the Fans she is and stop with this it your damn opinion. People know who Mickie is my god outside of wrestling i work with many non wrestling fans and know who she is plus other know who she is too. Im not being a mark like your being a hater or a mark for Sable,Sunny,Chyna,Lita. Mickie benefited from the fans being behind her. This is a never ending deal with you about Mickie or Trish even and we will not see eye to eye on this.

        • BillyGP

          AJFan i apologize for my remark toward you i did not realize I posted it like that sorry.

        • ajfan83

          No offense, but Mickie isn’t famous outside of wrestling. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the people you work with only know about Mickie because of you. And I’m not some blind fan of Sable, Chyna, Lita or Sunny (I was never big on any of them), so don’t act like I’m trying to compare Mickie negatively to them because I’m biased. And if you were being more honest, you would realize she isn’t on their level, and never was (she is close to Sunny, though). Whether that’s because WWE didn’t push her that way or because she wasn’t as popular as you think she is, I’ll leave up to other people. The fact is you can only get so far if WWE isn’t behind you all the way. Look at Zack Ryder. He made himself popular through his internet show, the fans bought his merchandise and were chanting his name, and yet WWE thinks he’s a jobber, and so he is a jobber. Mickie got a better push than Zack, but WWE only saw her as a decent “Plan B” when the women they wanted to push were out. Like I have said, over and over again, pops will only get you so far. That’s not opinion, either. That’s the way WWE operates.

        • BillyGP

          AJFan it no0t because of me people i work work with know of Mickie James they know her name. Im being honest Mickie is a big name outside or inside of wrestling i don’t know how you say she not when hell she was the MOST popular Diva when Trish and Lita left got more pops and reactions during matches then the ones you named and if not then the same level as you put it. I done said Vince never liked Mickie never thought she had the look but guess what she made a name for herself and it still going.

  • http://www.youtube.com/jillfan1 Jillfan1

    I love this woman so humble I have to say Mickie James will be remembered as one of WOMEN’S WRESTLING Icon I am so serious people know Mickie she is like a staple she has made her mark I LOOK UP TO HER she is so real I LUV YA Mickie thankyou for making a believe routta me that women Can do it! she is an extraordinaire an entertainer, a business woman and a awesome wrestler she is right she is from the rare breed Gail,Tara, Nattie, and etc certain girls have “It”

  • BillyGP

    Mickie music career has not flopped if it did she would not have made another CD. Plus again ti a side project she wanted to do.

    Trish has been on the most magazine covers then ANYONE rather in Toronto or outside Canada which means she is known outside wrestling fans.

    • Virginia Devereux

      It flopped. It didn’t even chart. Educate yourself on the music industry before you try to defend your one of your favorites. I’d start by reading about album certifications, the history of music, and Billboard.

  • Melissa K Killer 2010

    if the End is coming I would like to thank
    2.Diva Dirt
    3.all the women that put there body’s in harm way for our enjoyment.
    6.Mickie James

  • BornChampion

    Mickie is such a lovely women, IMO one of the best women wrestlers to ever step foot in the wrestling world.

  • Mickie-DT

    “Every cloud has a silver lining.” Honestly, she’s the one who inspires me to become a wrestler… And I know it will never happen but I want to step in a ring with her, whether I’m versing her or teaming with her, it’d be a huge dream come true. Whether she continues wrestling or singing, I’ll be there supporting her!